Stan Meyers Secret, Preventing Electrolysis.

[lamare]

I lay awake in bed last night pondering a flaw in my logic concerning the MIT Leyden Jar experiment... something is still not quite adding up, and I'm uncomfortable with it.

However, as we're somewhat going off-topic, and because I don't wish to clog HMS's thread up with further multiple posts on this subject, I'll start a fresh thread.

Good idea!

However, what's relevant in this discussion is that a polarized dielectricum, under certain conditions, is able to charge a capacitor. I think it is justified to say that is a fact.

So, if you have a capacitor, such as in the WFC, of which the outer (positive) tube is covered by a dielectric (*only* at at one side, the outside...), that you somehow manage to polarize.Then, because a polarized dielectric can re-charge a Leyden Jar, I don't see any reason why it should not be able to recharge a WFC capacitor, especially since this effect has also been observed with electrolytic capacitors. Then I don't think it takes a magigian to figure out what will happen if this dielectric manages to keep your capacitor charged at.... 1.5V or a little above that....

[Farrah Day]

'Dielectricum', blimey, now there's a word for Scrabble! Sounds like some new antibiotic-resistant superbug.

[sebosfato]

I went to the library today to find that tomlin's book

I have only one word to say

Fantastic!

hope you take the time to do the same.

It explain that water ionize in the presence of magnetic or electric fields

So its done for me...

once you got the ions already separated mechanically is now easy to understand how to bound the h+ + h+ to form the h2

The inventor witch i had the pleasure to know is a genius.

Pl and Pd is aways important however

BEst Regards

[gene gene]

@SEBOS
What is this tomlins book you speak of?
I would like to find & study.
thanks, Gene

[sebosfato]

Its called fundamental atomic physics, tomlin is the author...

Its was mentioned on the dublin explanation about the water fuel cell

I don't could not make a copy of it, because there are rigid rules about copying here in my country... university library

I suggest you to try finding online the closest library where you can find it close to your place...

( he also talk in the book about how magnetic field does lower the frequency of electron cyclotron resonance, down to the radio frequencies... and many other things... )

He talks also about dissociation energy, ionization... very cool

Best Regards

[Farrah Day]

I went to the library today to find that tomlin's book

I have only one word to say

Fantastic!

hope you take the time to do the same.

It explain that water ionize in the presence of magnetic or electric fields

So its done for me...

Electric fields are certainly what cause the water molecule to ionise, so no argument there from me.

once you got the ions already separated mechanically is now easy to understand how to bound the h+ + h+ to form the h2

This is the key part, and indeed the problem part. It would be nice if you would elaborate on how we go from 2 x H+ to H2. Obviously in normal electrolysis two electrons are taken from the cathode... you're not just talking about normal electrolysis are you?

The inventor witch i had the pleasure to know is a genius.

Pl and Pd is aways important however

BEst Regards

Assuming Pd is Potential difference, what is Pl?

[Farrah Day]

Here's the link to the Dublin Paper if anyone is not familiar with it.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/WFCexpl.pdf

I've got to say though, that it has never made any sense to me for reasons I'll explain later.

You will note though, that there is absolutely no mention of a separate dielectric coating on either of the ss electrodes.

[gene gene]

@ sebosfa, thanks for the RE.

@ Farrah Day, I will look at Dublin paper when time permits.

Thanks to all here, Gene

[Farrah Day]

Hi HMS.

Been there, done that. That's been around for donkey's years and suffers exactly the same flaws as the science in the Dublin Paper and indeed Meyer.

I'm afraid it's another non-starter for reasons I've detailed on numerous occasions - primarily the lack of a charge exchange medium.

I'm aware that my apparent pessimism does not always make me 'flavour of the month', but it's not that I'm close-minded or continually negative for the sake of it. Rather that I'm just practically-minded and realistic. And if the science does not add up for whatever reason, then I liberally sprinkle with a good dose of scepticism.

If the science can be explained and bears out, fair enough, great. However, if the science cannot be explained, is full of holes or simply fails to add up and make any real sense, then I tend to treat it with great caution. Unlike many people I'm simply uncomfortable living in a fantasy world.

[sebosfato]

Hi HMS.

Been there, done that. That's been around for donkey's years and suffers exactly the same flaws as the science in the Dublin Paper and indeed Meyer.

I'm afraid it's another non-starter for reasons I've detailed on numerous occasions - primarily the lack of a charge exchange medium.

I'm aware that my apparent pessimism does not always make me 'flavour of the month', but it's not that I'm close-minded or continually negative for the sake of it. Rather that I'm just practically-minded and realistic. And if the science does not add up for whatever reason, then I liberally sprinkle with a good dose of scepticism.

If the science can be explained and bears out, fair enough, great. However, if the science cannot be explained, is full of holes or simply fails to add up and make any real sense, then I tend to treat it with great caution. Unlike many people I'm simply uncomfortable living in a fantasy world.

Faraday get more optimistic, go find that book and read it..

Pl and Pd stands for platinum and palladium

I was trying to figure out how to calculate the force needed to be maintained for separating the charges and how much this will break the water recirculation... the water recirculation under the magnetic field will automatically polarizes the water allowing the membrane to exchange the ions thus, it become like a battery plenty of h+ ions on one side and oh- ions on the other side than you short it, the electrons from the oh- are extracted while reforming h2o and o2 and this electrons go to the other side "short" making the h+ ions to become h2 ions...

Basically water should cracks it self. And all this being chargeD by the water movement in relation to the magnets allowing to the ions to split and remain separated each one on one side of the membrane.

You than just need to apply the amount the amount of amps desired..

Thats why meyer used his alternator... I believe that he probably transformed it in a ultra high amperage and very low voltage ...

[HMS-776]

In the self ionization process a hydrogen atom leaves one water molecule only to attach itself to another leaving H3O+ and OH-. This happens naturally and without any energy input . If a hydrogen atom can leave a water molecule without any input then what does this tell us about the strength of the covalent bond???

As far as the science, chemistry, and math to show the actual process I do not believe it exists...If it did don't you think we would be running on water right now?

In electrolysis the ions play a role in the process. But in Meyers process there is no charge exchange medium (thanks farrah day) for conventional electrolysis to occur. This is obviously a different process than anyone has seen before...If not it would have been figured out a long time ago.

So why not. Why can't an electric field cause the water molecule to seperate due to the opposite attractive forces? If there is no charge exchange medium isin't this our only other option?

[SeaMonkey]

In the self ionization process a hydrogen atom leaves one water molecule only to attach itself to another leaving H3O+ and OH-. This happens naturally and without any energy input . If a hydrogen atom can leave a water molecule without any input then what does this tell us about the strength of the covalent bond???

As far as the science, chemistry, and math to show the actual process I do not believe it exists...If it did don't you think we would be running on water right now?

In electrolysis the ions play a role in the process. But in Meyers process there is no charge exchange medium (thanks farrah day) for conventional electrolysis to occur. This is obviously a different process than anyone has seen before...If not it would have been figured out a long time ago.

So why not. Why can't an electric field cause the water molecule to separate due to the opposite attractive forces? If there is no charge exchange medium isn't this our only other option?

The 'applied stimulation' which will cause the
water molecule clusters to dis-associate into
gaseous components is an "induction" field.

A static electric field (or magnetic field) is
not effective in transferring energy.

It is the Alternating or Undulating field strength
which has the ability to influence ions in the
same (or similar) manner as an electrical current
inserted into the solution by means of electrodes.

"Resonance" is an AC phenomenon.

[sebosfato]

V=Q(coulombs)/e(81dielectric*8.85418781762*10-12vacumm permitivity)^R(0,5 meters)

V=Q/e^R equation 14 stan book

F=q*q'/R^2 equation 13


How much energy you need to spend to keep h+ ions on one side of a tank and 0h- ions on the other side of the tank?

How much of this ions you have freely on water?
pure water have H+= OH- = 10^-7 witch means that for every 555 milions of H2O molecules only one ionize. This mean that
ions in 18g of water will be =6,02*10^23/555000000 = 1,084,684,684,684,680
(from a chemistry book)

Ions in 2 liter of water 120,520,519,315,315,000 H+ and OH-

So A hell lot of them and if you take them out more will be generated.

I want to find how much energy i need to keep this ions or better to separate this ions mechanically by making the water to move in a magnetic field..

Like a conductor moving on a magnetic field generate current, water being a deformable conductor does also generate a current but being it a dielectric you will get ions separated...

This will let me know how manny watts my water pump will need to spend to make this.

When voltage is developed accordingly to the 14 equation is just a matter of short the circuit generating electricity back and discharging the ions into gas molecules. .

[tutanka]

Faraday get more optimistic, go find that book and read it..

Pl and Pd stands for platinum and palladium

I was trying to figure out how to calculate the force needed to be maintained for separating the charges and how much this will break the water recirculation... the water recirculation under the magnetic field will automatically polarizes the water allowing the membrane to exchange the ions thus, it become like a battery plenty of h+ ions on one side and oh- ions on the other side than you short it, the electrons from the oh- are extracted while reforming h2o and o2 and this electrons go to the other side "short" making the h+ ions to become h2 ions...

Basically water should cracks it self. And all this being chargeD by the water movement in relation to the magnets allowing to the ions to split and remain separated each one on one side of the membrane.

You than just need to apply the amount the amount of amps desired..

Thats why meyer used his alternator... I believe that he probably transformed it in a ultra high amperage and very low voltage ...

Fabio,
Stai vedendo la cosa dal punto di vista sbagliato. L'alternatore veniva usato non per generare molta corrente ma perchè meccanicamente al variare del numero di giri variava il voltaggio (non c'era il regolatore a bordo). Non dimenticare il diodo in serie come rettificatore. La risonanza non è AC ma una DC "sintonizzabile"

[sebosfato]

Ok ma da quello che so, l'alternatore senza il regolatore, anche se c'e ancora il diodo si trasformerebbe in un PMA che dovrebbe una volta superato il voltaggio minimo per passare la corrente attraverso l'acqua tutto il voltaggio eccedente sarebbe trasformato in amperaggio. é sbagliata questa affermazione?

Poi nel tuo caso generavi il h2 + o2 insieme vero?
Io vorrei generargli separatamente... Cè una differenza no?

Nel mio caso sarebbero diversi elettrodi in parallelo...

Grazie