Future Energy hydroxy cell

[Cloxxki]

Thanks for the response Farrah Day.

I am still unsure about over unity myself here. If a process yet to be understood creates for a "natural" flow of ions from an endless source to an otherwise closed system, it seems more like harvesting than over unity.

If they'd make more (plain) HHO gas than should be possible according to Faraday for their given input power, that would be over unity for sure, as it would allow a sufficiently efficient motor/generator to do it all over again, with load. You start with water, and end with water.
If indeed they're not making plain HHO as we know it, then possibly Faraday's limitation don't apply, thus a new "unity" threshold needs to be set for the amount of energy a unit of the gas (being created from more than the water tank's water and electrolyte along) can put out, or the amount of this gas can be created from a Kwh of power.
I'm not a proper researcher so don't listen to me. But if these guys are for real, we'll just have to re-write history books and convert al our hydrocarbon engines to feature such water processors/oin collectors, whatever it may be that makes it work.

I so want to believe this, but for Open Source, the wording seems a bit too cryptic. I'm torn. When it proves real, I'll throw in my non-tech capabilities to promote this.

[Farrah Day]

Cloxxki, don't get me wrong here, I'd love these guys to be the real deal, it's just we all know from past experience that there are a lot of conmen and a lot of bull****ters out there.

Until more details are disclosed, we can only go on what we've been told, and the figures that have been put forward so far.

However, at 80 amps, this is clearly not employing the Meyer high voltage/low current principle. And 80 amps at around 12 volts is hovering around the 1000 watt mark, so the water would get hot very quickly.

It would be overunity. Consider this:

If the unit was run from a battery and the resulting gases fed to a small generator which then produced enough power to keep the battery topped up and the process running, then this would be a closed system. For this system to run continually would mean that it suffered no losses, it would be at least at unity. However, not only is this said to be happening by Freddie, but it's also providing enough energy to drive a 1/2 ton (or more) vehicle.

So the question is, where are the energy gains made? Because trust me there would have to be a lot of energy gained over what was input for this to work as claimed.

There may well be something we're yet to understand about common duct electrolyser gases and the way they behave, but even this is asking a great deal.

One thing for sure, the strain on the alternator must be considerable.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Boom

55ltrs/min and 60psi, if it was true you would be riding in your own personalised metal coffin.

Get real, you only have to think about the amount of HHO to run a car, IF you could make it that fast the BIGGEST problem anyone would have is security, nearly 1ltr a secound and 60psi, sorry can't be done and be safe at the same time.

Mike

[Cloxxki]

Yet those at the claims. That PSI, for whichever gas they are making. And that amount to be sufficient for a car to run off. Not sure it's the very same gas still then.
If ions are involved, the word "closed system" may need to be specified. When are these supposed to be introduced, and from which source?

[Farrah Day]

55ltrs/min and 60psi, if it was true you would be riding in your own personalised metal coffin.

Get real, you only have to think about the amount of HHO to run a car, IF you could make it that fast the BIGGEST problem anyone would have is security, nearly 1ltr a secound and 60psi, sorry can't be done and be safe at the same time.

Mike

I'm inclined to agree Mike, but then I'm always sceptical about unsubstantiated claims and the people that make them, and usually get beat-up on because of my 'naysaying' and negativity. Just thought I'd give this a fair chance to play-out while waiting for the true facts come to light.

[Farrah Day]

Yet those at the claims. That PSI, for whichever gas they are making. And that amount to be sufficient for a car to run off. Not sure it's the very same gas still then.
If ions are involved, the word "closed system" may need to be specified. When are these supposed to be introduced, and from which source?

Are they using an electrolyte? I'm not sure, but either way there are ions in the water, if not just hydroxyl and hydrogen ions. They don't get introduced as such, they are always there, though more may get induced.

They can only be making oxygen and hydrogen if there's only water in the wfc.

[Matthew Jones]

Little change in subject.

Seem we do alot of speculating on how things become possible. I don't have enough experience with water to even guess.
But I found this article and accompanied movie about a Japanese who uses an agitator to make his gas extremely stable.
Japanese technologist sees water as energy source | Changing Power

They run a motor on the gas and compress the gas pretty high , He says without loss through the storage vessel.

If I were to guess this might be possible through harmonics of some kind. Might be clue as to how the guys are keeping the gas stable and higher pressures.

Anyway Enjoy
Matt

[Farrah Day]

Hi Matt

I've seen this video before and I'm always amazed by how many variations of gas people seem to want to put their name to when water is dissociated. It would seem to me that the agitator merely helps in depolarising the electrodes to an extent, by more effectively removing the gases as they form.

It's all a bit of a joke really as everything he does and states is already known and has been done before. It's like the guy has lived in a bubble and is unaware of past research. As a scientist, I'm frankly amazed that he has not researched this more, otherwise he would be aware that he is in fact covering exactly the same ground as Rhodes, Brown, etc, and many people since who are using this gas to weld and cut claiming it to be their own invention. Ultimately, it's hardly breaking news.

However, what immediately puts me on the defensive with this guy, and indeed triggers my alarm bells, is when I read pieces like this:

I came up with the idea to take water crystal photos from water in 1994 and succeeded.
I have done a number of various studies since then. The most beautiful water crystal photo that we have ever taken is a water crystal created when the words of love and gratitude were exposed to water

So it appears that not only is water an intelligence, but it understands Japanese! Or perhaps it's bi-lingual and he spoke the words in English too.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find credibility tends to go out of the window when you start talking to water!

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Matt...............
However, what immediately puts me on the defensive with this guy, and indeed triggers my alarm bells, is when I read pieces like this:.....
So it appears that not only is water an intelligence, but it understands Japanese! Or perhaps it's bi-lingual and he spoke the words in English too.
Perhaps it's just me, but I find credibility tends to go out of the window when you start talking to water!

Ya it's probably just you. Translations sometimes vary based on the culture.
But if thats all the more you can get out of it, well let them bells keep ringing.

Cheers
Matt

[rick123]

Hi Matt

I've seen this video before and I'm always amazed by how many variations of gas people seem to want to put their name to when water is dissociated. It would seem to me that the agitator merely helps in depolarising the electrodes to an extent, by more effectively removing the gases as they form.

It's all a bit of a joke really as everything he does and states is already known and has been done before. It's like the guy has lived in a bubble and is unaware of past research. As a scientist, I'm frankly amazed that he has not researched this more, otherwise he would be aware that he is in fact covering exactly the same ground as Rhodes, Brown, etc, and many people since who are using this gas to weld and cut claiming it to be their own invention. Ultimately, it's hardly breaking news.

However, what immediately puts me on the defensive with this guy, and indeed triggers my alarm bells, is when I read pieces like this:



So it appears that not only is water an intelligence, but it understands Japanese! Or perhaps it's bi-lingual and he spoke the words in English too.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find credibility tends to go out of the window when you start talking to water!

I have never seen this process before,thanks Mat. FD I thought the same thing as you when I read that part about love and gratitude, I rolled my eyes thinking "why ya got to ruin it for me?" Lmao..

[Matthew Jones]

See if you take the time read the article and actually absorb the article, The scientist is not the one who is writing the letter its some spiritual guy with another name talking about scientist.

But thats what happens when you immediately decide someone is wrong or discredited based on your knowledge of things. You decide to see or read whatever it is you think it is, instead just evaluating it before you make an opinion.

But unfortunately that the scientific method of the day. If thats the way you chose to learn, Good luck in your work...

Matt

[Farrah Day]

Someone is jumping to conclusions here, must be the way it read.

Oddly enough Matt I can read and was fully aware that the guy writing the article was not Ohmasa himself, but some eccentric numb-nuts completely uneducated in electrolysis and the science behind Ohmasa's technology.

However, the guy in the video is clearly Ohmasa, who seems genuinely amazed by his new discovery. The fact that Ohmasa is a scientist apparently completely oblivious to the research that others have done before him, and that none of this is in fact new, is what I find most amazing of all.

It's like someone claiming to have discovered Tutankhamun's tomb, simply because they'd not researched the fact that Howard Carter did so in 1922.

So the question here is, what discovery has Ohmasa actually made?

Like others before him that guy Denny Klein also discovered hydroxy gas a few years ago before making the news with his incredible electrolysers. In fact everytime someone builds and electrolyser and ignites the resulting gases, it seems to make big news as if it's never been done before. New invention, new discovery, new gas, new fuel, the world is saved, blah, blah, blah. It just shows you how ignorant, naive and indeed gulible people are... time and time again.

Now we have 'Ohmasa Gas' to add to the list.

And if you understood Japanese you will have clearly heard Ohmasa talking to his water and telling his nano-bubbles that he loved them.

[Matthew Jones]

Oh well you get alot out of it apparently.
I was under the impression he was claiming the gas was new do to the refinement through aggitation. It eliminated alot of the problem around storage, while acting the same as other HHO products. The fact that it could be stored instead of being produce on demand. And they were looking into even larger storage techniques.

But then again I don't speak Japanese so you must have been able to derive alot more than I would have. And of course your intelligence is superior to anybodies around here, I know this cause you tell us so often.

SO pardon me oh blessed one for pointing out yet another piece of useless information.

But I have to say I am glad the guy is a little coocoo and loves his bubbles. We actually might see some progress on one front or another from somebody like him. Lord know we won't see it from the "Know It All Pukes" in this place.

Matt

[eclipz]

Here are some "update"
link: Update on Freddy: prototype 7, lab tour, forum


Now Freddy is working on prototype 7, which he hopes will be far more robust. At $8,000 for components, he may be overdoing it, but he wants to be sure that his unit will hold up, given all the scrutiny that this technology is coming under. Both he and his associate, David Seiglar, have liquidated some assets in order to come up with the funding needed to press forward in this project. I personally think that this speaks volumes about their integrity and intentions.

This time, rather than apply the cell to run a truck, Freddy plans to run a 36 kW generator that usually runs on propane. He hopes to have it ready to go within a couple of weeks. It will be housed "in a beautiful ¼-inch acrylic vessel, impervious to heat and pressure," said Freddy in his update video 1 below. The new cell is probably going to be called a "cascade cell", using a cascade wave effect. He said it is a combination between a Meyers cell and a Joe cell.


so hes now doing a 36kw gen. I dont know whats hes up to but i wanna see some SCHEMATICS!!!!!!

[Farrah Day]

Matt

William Rhodes stored hydroxy gas years ago and found then exactly what Ohmasa is finding now.

It's obviously new stuff to people that don't know much of the history of common duct electrolysis and hydroxy, but as a scientist Ohmasa must surely have done some research on the subject.

It's not that I'm poppooing anything so much as simply highlighting the fact that Ohmasa has nothing new that I can see. The agitator may make the electrolysis process a little more efficient by shifting the gas from the electrodes as it evolves and of course this will mean smaller bubbles within the liquid, but once evolved from the water we have a regular hydroxy stoichiometric mixture of 2H2 and O2. Plus the agitator itself will take some power.

I simply feel that it's been over-hyped as something new and incredible when it's not. You can fully expect this sort of super-hyped 'breaking news' nonsense from the dumb-ass reportors or garage tinkerers the likes of Denny Klein, but Ohmasa - by all accounts a reputable scientist - really should know better.

Sorry if you feel I'm a, know-it-all-puke - it's taken years of applying myself. I know how you feel though, I annoy myself sometimes too!

Incidentally, I've already got one of them electrolysers.

Imageshack - picture396l.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay
Imageshack - picture399e.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay
Imageshack - picture398u.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay

Built mine up last year, but there are distinctive differences between Freddie's and mine.