Future Energy hydroxy cell

[Farrah Day]

Here are some "update"
link: Update on Freddy: prototype 7, lab tour, forum

This time, rather than apply the cell to run a truck, Freddy plans to run a 36 kW generator that usually runs on propane. He hopes to have it ready to go within a couple of weeks. It will be housed "in a beautiful ¼-inch acrylic vessel, impervious to heat and pressure," said Freddy in his update video 1 below. The new cell is probably going to be called a "cascade cell", using a cascade wave effect. He said it is a combination between a Meyers cell and a Joe cell.


so hes now doing a 36kw gen. I dont know whats hes up to but i wanna see some SCHEMATICS!!!!!!

I too want to see some schematics of the new set up.

I personally wish he'd stuck to the truck. It's far more visually impressive powering a moving truck than a static generator, though I suppose he can more easily alter the loading to determine exact energy gains. Though my brain is telling me he can't do it, he won't do it, my heart is nevertheless really hoping he does.

I see we're already at the being shot at and possible poisoning stage - where have I heard all this before?

You can see what's going to happen here can't you - old Freddy is conveniently going to pop his clogs before he proves his claims.

[rick123]

Matt

William Rhodes stored hydroxy gas years ago and found then exactly what Ohmasa is finding now.

It's obviously new stuff to people that don't know much of the history of common duct electrolysis and hydroxy, but as a scientist Ohmasa must surely have done some research on the subject.

It's not that I'm poppooing anything so much as simply highlighting the fact that Ohmasa has nothing new that I can see. The agitator may make the electrolysis process a little more efficient by shifting the gas from the electrodes as it evolves and of course this will mean smaller bubbles within the liquid, but once evolved from the water we have a regular hydroxy stoichiometric mixture of 2H2 and O2. Plus the agitator itself will take some power.

I simply feel that it's been over-hyped as something new and incredible when it's not. You can fully expect this sort of super-hyped 'breaking news' nonsense from the dumb-ass reportors or garage tinkerers the likes of Denny Klein, but Ohmasa - by all accounts a reputable scientist - really should know better.

Sorry if you feel I'm a, know-it-all-puke - it's taken years of applying myself. I know how you feel though, I annoy myself sometimes too!

Incidentally, I've already got one of them electrolysers.

Imageshack - picture396l.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay
Imageshack - picture399e.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay
Imageshack - picture398u.jpg - Uploaded by FarrahDay

Built mine up last year, but there are distinctive differences between Freddie's and mine.

That is some shiny steel FD, very nice......

[Vickers]

I believe this.
Mainly because Fast Freddie clearly states in the video that the anode is sacrificial.
Which means it is likely not stainless steel.
Or if it is, he must be using a salt electrolyte.

[Farrah Day]

He says 316L in the video, which is stainless steel, which of course under normal conditions won't particularly corrode in water. Has anyone heard or seen mention of an electrolyte? Because I haven't.

It may be that at the extremely high current densities spoken about (and I see mention of 120+ amps now) that the stainless steel protective chromium layer simply can't uphold and iron within the alloy begins to react.

Q. What is the peak current to the HHO electrolyzer?

Nominally we run @ 55 amps when hot. When there is no pressure in the vessel, I run the cell @ 120amps to make pressure quickly---about 2 minutes from 0psi to 68psi, but this proto PWM has been oven tested at 110F @150A with no problems

There certainly are some intriguing things been said. The old resonance thing arises again, and yet again I have me doubts here.

The excited water molecules 2(H2O) now only require a fraction of the amperage to be converted into (2H2 + O2). Also experimentation of harmonic frequencies have produced interesting results, sometimes exceeding HHO production of the tubes at resonance. The vessel has a large inner and outer tube which is tuned 4 octaves lower than the outer tubes and has a clearance between the tubes of only 1mm. This tube produces the most heat and HHO. The smaller outer tubes have a 2mm clearance and run cooler and take less amperage and are mounted around the large tube assembly

The first sentence here I find odd, given that he has spoken of currents well in excess of 100 amps!

And then there's the resonance thing. In the video Freddy states that he is about to tune the tubes, but of course tuning two tube to resonate the same in air does not mean anything once you've put them in a vessel and added water. Frankly I can't see them resonating at all in the physical sense. This tuning issue is a real thorn in my side as I've never been able to follow the thinking behind it... no that's wrong, I should say, I've never been able to apply science to the thinking behind it.

Someone once mentioned that a standing wave was set up between the inner and outer tube, but a standing wave with a length of just a few millimetres would be have to be of a extraordinarily high frequency, and well outside of anything ever used in these devices.


And then there's this little mystery:

The epoxy used to seal the bottom inside of the vessel and bottom of the electrical enclosure is laced with ferrous oxide dust 10% by weight which creates an capacitor which smoothes out the square wave pattern to a sine wave pattern which helps the transition between off and on for the PWM. Experimentation with an air coil after the mosfet drivers and before the load also resulted in an increase of efficiency

The epoxy used to seal and set the tubes is laced with... rust! Which... creates a capacitor? Why...what? I don't know, I just can't get my head around what that is all about, but it sounds more like it would create a resistor than a capacitor...

Got to say while I'm extremely intrigued by all this, I'm also more than a little baffled by it all.

Bring on the next instalment.

[Farrah Day]

If you boys haven't seen this you-tube video, it's a real eye-opener.

YouTube - HYDROGEN - 524 LITERS PER MINUTE

You should note however, that the guy is talking about hydrogen here, not hydroxy. Nevertheless, you can get a feel for the figures and you can see just how much more energy hydroxy would have to contain over straight hydrogen to meet the needs of an ICE.

So I guess the question is, does the resulting gas evolved from a pulsing electrolyser some how contain the needed energy, and if so... where did it come from?

[lamare]

So I guess the question is, does the resulting gas evolved from a pulsing electrolyser some how contain the needed energy, and if so... where did it come from?

One of the most likely candidates for the origin of any excess energy in any free energy device is the electric field, as I explain in my article:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Prof. Turturs calculations (referenced in there) show without a shadow af a doubt that the electric field *is* an energy source. So, the question is not so much where the energy comes from, but how to get it.



In this article I describe how I think Meyer, Puharich *and* Gray did this, in principle. And as a matter of fact, *all* electrical circuits in the universe are actually powered by the electric field and *not* by chemical energy or something. Bearden has been saying this for years and he is right.

[Farrah Day]

Lamare, that's all very well, but I think you'll find it quite difficult to explain either the gains in evolving gases or the gain of energy content within the resulting gases with your article.

I mean, how does it relate to the electrochemical reaction of the ionising water, where ions and electrons play a big role... and indeed Faraday's laws of electrolysis?

[lamare]

Lamare, that's all very well, but I think you'll find it quite difficult to explain either the gains in evolving gases or the gain of energy content within the resulting gases with your article.

I mean, how does it relate to the electrochemical reaction of the ionising water, where ions and electrons play a big role... and indeed Faraday's laws of electrolysis?

If you can get electricity (almost) for free using my theory, I don't see why you couldn't use that to perform electrolysis with. For free. As Faraday did. Now that doesn't necessarily mean there is no other way to get power out of the electric field for free, but I am convinced Meyer and Puharich did it the way I explain, because Gray did it exactly the same *and* it matches basic electrotechnical theory as well. It just all adds up.

[eclipz]

New video up

YouTube - 2010-09-06_11-26-04_439.3gp

[Farrah Day]

Well not much in that last video.

And personally I don't think that he is producing anymore gas there than I would have expected given he's pumping tens of amps through the cell. My cell easily produces that much visually if I dope it and put a 12v car battery across the terminals. Without properly measuring the gas, a demo like that is very deceptive, however, if he was getting 55LPM, I would have expected a real geyser!

He mentions the teaspoon of Sodium Hydroxide there, but still not sure if he uses it in a working wfc.

Also in the text somewhere it states that they are using a carrier wave and that there is a -ve and +ve voltage on the anode and cathode respectively, 180 degrees out of phase..?? I'm not at all sure what to make of that.

He has stated that plans are available, but the only plans I'm seeing are the ones that date back to 2006, and are clearly nothing like the current set up, so quite pointless.

Let's see what the next video, 'tube tuning' shows.

I have to say though, the longer this goes on before we see anything like a schematic or current plans, the more sceptical I'll become.

[lamare]

Well not much in that last video.

And personally I don't think that he is producing anymore gas there than I would have expected given he's pumping tens of amps through the cell. My cell easily produces that much visually if I dope it and put a 12v car battery across the terminals. Without properly measuring the gas, a demo like that is very deceptive, however, if he was getting 55LPM, I would have expected a real geyser!

He mentions the teaspoon of Sodium Hydroxide there, but still not sure if he uses it in a working wfc.

Also in the text somewhere it states that they are using a carrier wave and that there is a -ve and +ve voltage on the anode and cathode respectively, 180 degrees out of phase..?? I'm not at all sure what to make of that.

He has stated that plans are available, but the only plans I'm seeing are the ones that date back to 2006, and are clearly nothing like the current set up, so quite pointless.

Let's see what the next video, 'tube tuning' shows.

I have to say though, the longer this goes on before we see anything like a schematic or current plans, the more sceptical I'll become.

The carrier wave is very important. It has to be a half wave rectified carrier wave, passed to the load trough a high pass filter. The load will have to be inductive, so there will be some coils in there which give you the amperage for free. That's the essence of the trick I am talking about.

[Farrah Day]

Lamare

I've copied off your article in full and I'm just studying it at present. Very well written and very interesting - even if you are still dropping your 'Hs' in through.

My immediate thoughts are that what you state applies to my closed-loop electrolyser concept more clearly and obviously than most other devices, and indeed without fully realising it I am in fact working along your lines.

Changing the subject, Fast Freddy's WFC, I'm finding to be a bit of an enigma.

He claims to be using a PWM, which I assumed would be pulsing dc, so where do carrier waves and modulation fit into this scenario I wonder?

The other thing is that according to his videos showing his in-car pressure gauge, the unit is pressuring up to around 60PSI. Now I see his engine is injection, so I assume this pressure must be contained between the WFC and the injectors. It takes around 2 minutes to initially reach this pressure before the engine is switched on, but then, logically you would expect this pressure to drop drastically when the engine starts and demands fuel - it doesn't. Furthermore, the pressure only drops very slowly when he turns the WFC off while driving the vehicle. All very strange.

None of this quite adds up to me, and though I'm not at this time disputing the fact that he has a vehicle running on hydroxy, I am suggesting that maybe some of the figures are wrong. Either that or the energy contained in the gas far exceeds anything predicted by known science and hence the vehicle can run on relatively small amounts of this gas.

It will be interesting to see how this works on the proposed generator demo, as surely this will have a carb rather than injectors, so won't be pressurised in the same way.

[lamare]

He claims to be using a PWM, which I assumed would be pulsing dc, so where do carrier waves and modulation fit into this scenario I wonder?

Pulsing DC is in essence the same thing. Meyer had a high frequency block "wave" which was his "carrier wave", and this was switched on/off with another, lower frequency, block wave. So it's just modulation taken to the extreme. It's not "modulated" with a nice sine wave, it's modulated with a "binary signal" so to speak.

It may be less efficient to use block waves instead of nice sine waves, but who cares if you get more energy out of the thing than you have to put in yourself in order to get it?

[Vickers]

Hey. I'm pretty sure if Direct Current is pulsed it is no longer DC. It becomes AC. The hertz relative to the pulse..
Seems pointless to me unless trying to generate a tone???Or frequency perhaps? Maybe a resonance?

But whatever? My view on this Dodge running on water?
I watched all the guys videos.

He clearly states that his first hog cell was sacrificial anode.
Anyone who understands electrochemical reactions will not be surprised at
55 liters per minute.
Which IS enough to run an engine. The link Farah Day posted is ABSOLUTE BULL****T . I am baffled why he even posted it???
Jesus!!! Go to California? There are thousands of cars fueled by hydrogen. And they dont need to tow a pressurized tanker behind them just to check the mail box?
****ing google man?
Downfall of intelligence =Google
Sorry dude...But I think your credibility just flew out the window..I mean what were u thinking? Were u thinking? Maybe u should practice thinking for a bit. ....Hey we all learn by our mistakes apparently so who cares?
I dont. I still love u man regardless
Personally I think Fast Freddies head has swollen and now thinks he can replicate Meyer resonance in order to justify his obvious sacrificial anode, which does work....but only usefull if endless supply of free sacrificial metals.

[Farrah Day]

Hey. I'm pretty sure if Direct Current is pulsed it is no longer DC. It becomes AC. The hertz relative to the pulse..
Seems pointless to me unless trying to generate a tone???Or frequency perhaps? Maybe a resonance?

But whatever? My view on this Dodge running on water?
I watched all the guys videos.

He clearly states that his first hog cell was sacrificial anode.
Anyone who understands electrochemical reactions will not be surprised at
55 liters per minute.
Which IS enough to run an engine. The link Farah Day posted is ABSOLUTE BULL****T . I am baffled why he even posted it???
Jesus!!! Go to California? There are thousands of cars fueled by hydrogen. And they dont need to tow a pressurized tanker behind them just to check the mail box?
****ing google man?
Downfall of intelligence =Google
Sorry dude...But I think your credibility just flew out the window..I mean what were u thinking? Were u thinking? Maybe u should practice thinking for a bit. ....Hey we all learn by our mistakes apparently so who cares?
I dont. I still love u man regardless
Personally I think Fast Freddies head has swollen and now thinks he can replicate Meyer resonance in order to justify his obvious sacrificial anode, which does work....but only usefull if endless supply of free sacrificial metals.

lol, my credibility?... after this post of yours... right. I've always had my doubts about you Vickers, but I really had no idea you were quite such a numb-nuts!

These thousands of cars you are talking about being run by hydrogen are not ICEs are they? Noooo they would be electric motors or hybrids that run on hydrogen fuel cells... a totally different process and totally different requirements... and not from an on-demand fuel source!

Anyone who understands electrochemical reactions will not be surprised at 55 liters per minute.

That would be you... would it? lol Give me strength

I think this post of yours highlights just how little you know about anything and just how ignorant you really are when it comes to science and technology. You really don't have a clue... do you?

If I were you, for safety reasons, I would stick to experiments that utilise a lemon as the power source.