Future Energy hydroxy cell

[Farrah Day]

I think the most important questions regarding Meyer and Puharich is: can we trust their observations and measurements? I think we can to a large extent. The question wether or not we can trust their interpretation of things is a completely different question, but there is nothing that stops us from making our own interpretation of their observations and measurements

Couldn't have put it better myself!

The rim 4 is the housing of the WFC. So, why does he say these originate at the electrode rim, while he draws them a bit away from that??

And how does he know these are hydrogen bubbles just looking trough a microscope? Why aren't these hydrogen + oxygen??? I mean, if the water molecules are shattered then we should get both, right?

Valid questions indeed Lamare. I would think this more likely to be a cavitation effect, whereby the bubbles would actually be water vapour.

Regarding the protective oxide layer. Most oxides are poor conductors of electricity, and indeed the forced build up of calcium carbonate on the cathodes in my experiments have shown it to be of extremely high resistance - if I've managed to get any value of resistance even to register, that is! Yet charges seem to exchange at the electrode as if the mineral coating was not even there.

Of course a natural oxide protective coating also applies to copper, silver, gold, aluminium and others along with our stainless steel. All have a very effective protective oxide layer that prevents further oxidation and hence corrosion of the underlying metal. And all - particularly in the case of copper and silver - are very good conductors of electricity. So I think we must assume that the electron, being so much smaller than a molecule (or atom) of oxygen, can navigate through the oxide layer to reach the metal underneath, whereas under normal conditions an oxygen molecule can't.

Only when vast amounts of electron current flow occurs does this oxide layer start to fail and allow the ingress of oxygen - which of course would be right at hand on the anode to react.

This very reaction would result in less oxygen being evolved as gas, as instead we get rust. We would also no longer have a stoichiometric volume of hydrogen and oxygen. Thought whether this ultimately plays any part in terms of combustion and energy release is unknown and open to debate.

[lamare]

So I think we must assume that the electron, being so much smaller than a molecule (or atom) of oxygen, can navigate through the oxide layer to reach the metal underneath, whereas under normal conditions an oxygen molecule can't.

Exactly. And there are two ways this can happen, depending on the voltage across the dielectric oxide layer:

1. leakage current --> small current
2. dielectric breakdown -> large current.

[Farrah Day]

Exactly. And there are two ways this can happen, depending on the voltage across the dielectric oxide layer:

1. leakage current --> small current
2. dielectric breakdown -> large current.

Now I see what you were getting at Lamare.

The problem I see with what you are suggesting is that, I for one, have never noticed any such sudden unusual, rush of current flow across ss electrodes that I would expect to see if a dielectric suddenly failed.

In fact even when applying some very high voltages, I've never seen the current rise other than in proportion to the applied voltage.

In a normal insulative dielectric such as, let's say a plastic film, leakage current is due to some mobile electrons within that dielectric material itself, is it not? What I'm suggesting, and indeed what I believe is far more likely, is that the oxide layer in the case of the metals is more like a mesh that allows the small electon to pass unobstructed, but will prevent the passage of the much larger oxygen atoms or molecules. I'm also suggesting that at extremely heavy currents this mesh can tear, effectively creating a hole big enough for an oxygen atom or molecule to reach the underlying metal.

If you think about it the mesh scenario works quite well. Initially, when exposed to air or water, the oxygen would react with the bare metal to form this oxide layer. However, as soon as the oxide layer has covered the metal to the point whereby further oxygen molecules can no longer reach the bare metal, then the process would halt. This layer would surely only have to be a molecule thick to prevent further oxygen reaching the metal, but as such would surely be no obstacle to the electron.

[eclipz]

New video
YouTube - Fast Freddy and Lawrence's Update 8

Hope u like it. cuz i didnt

[Farrah Day]

New video
YouTube - Fast Freddy and Lawrence's Update 8

Hope u like it. cuz i didnt

Well you're not alone there eclipz. Yet another totally pointless video. What is anyone surposed to take away from that? What the hell is he doing?

He might as well be showing us his 'brother' making the coffee. I've got a horrible feeling it's all down hill from here!

[eclipz]

Something doesn't smell right, Its been a month and nothing yet. I have learn more of this in this forums than on his videos and it should be the opposite.

[lamare]

Now I see what you were getting at Lamare.

The problem I see with what you are suggesting is that, I for one, have never noticed any such sudden unusual, rush of current flow across ss electrodes that I would expect to see if a dielectric suddenly failed.

In fact even when applying some very high voltages, I've never seen the current rise other than in proportion to the applied voltage.

You can see this in the images shown here about how they made rectifiers in the old days, very, very, very similar to an electrolytic capacitor:
Borax or Baking Soda Rectifier and the glow.

The rectifier tends to also act like a capacitor.

The first picture from curve tracer, shows rectifier curve with very little plate area immersed in solution and little capacitance.

The second picture from curve tracer, shows rectifier with more plate area immersed producing a lot more parallel capacitance.

Now do realize that the layers in this example are in the order of a few micrometers thick. So, if your layer is very thin, such as on a clean ss tube, you hardly see this effect, because then the horizontal part of the curve will be much smaller... With a tube covered with Calcium carbonate you should be able to see this effect, though.

[Farrah Day]

Something doesn't smell right, Its been a month and nothing yet. I have learn more of this in this forums than on his videos and it should be the opposite.

Agreed.

In that last video he appears simply to be doing a bit of on-the-side experimenting. And why has he deleted the tube tuning videos I wonder??? Fast Freddy's credibility is now taking a severe knock with each and every 'worthless' video.

If you're looking in FF, get your act together quickly because you're fast becoming a bit of a joke!

[UncleFester]

Some friends of mine went over to see the system two times. The first time they got to check the whole truck over and found no gasoline. They were able to drive the truck a few miles and it apparently completely normal.

They did get a few inside details others didn't get. First, the cell feels as though it's vibrating mechanically when you put your hand on it. Second, there are multiple frequencies being fed into the system, just like JLN's Nand logic input on his WFC test. Third, the cell is using electrolytes (which immediately made me think it could not work).

A second team was sent to Arizona from Australia and all of them thought he had to be hiding something because they could not figure out (like me) how to get enough gas to run the truck from standard electrolysis.

Wells has terminal cancer and feels that he does not have much time left. apparently he is making sure that others know in detail how the system works in case he dies.

When our team went back for the last demonstration it was a no show. Wells was sick and there were problems with the cell. So I don't know what's going to happen but it doesn't look very good at this point.

Hope that gives a bit more insight as to what is going on.

Tad

[Farrah Day]

Thanks Tad

Well it would seem he's well enough to be making the videos - I just wish he'd cut to the chase. He sure as hell seems in no hurry to disclose anything useful.

Let's face it, if he does intend to fully disclose he's going about it all wrong. He should provide the schematics, the important or critical information and then go into more depth and details once everyone has seen the big picture. It's all too fragmented and disjointed to make any sense at present.

From photos it looked like he was simply using a commercially available PWM - I provided a link to it in an earlier post.

What electrolyte is FF's using in his working unit? Surely someone would have asked that. The only time he's mentioned an electrolyte was when he was showing a unit driven by straight DC on a workbench, when I think it was KOH, but that video along with two others has been deleted now.

Not in a million years is that WFC producing 55lpm, so that makes me immediately suspicious about anything and everything that is said thereafter. I am however trying my very hardest to give the guy the benefit of the doubt... but he ain't making it easy!

I take it you have not seen any schematics then Tad?

I feel I know you from some time back on the forums Tad... or would that be another Tad?

Some of you might find ZFF's comments of interest:

YouTube - #239 100% HHO FEC 2004 Dodge Pickup comments

[Vickers]

Making a little more sense now.

He needs pressure for the injectors to work.

The pressure build up is allowing his frequencies(or microwaves?) to super heat the water.

He was obviously concerned about this heat due to the large cooling tank on back of the truck, but realized the benefits and left it disconnected.

[lamare]

Thanks Tad

Well it would seem he's well enough to be making the videos - I just wish he'd cut to the chase. He sure as hell seems in no hurry to disclose anything useful.

Let's face it, if he does intend to fully disclose he's going about it all wrong. He should provide the schematics, the important or critical information and then go into more depth and details once everyone has seen the big picture. It's all too fragmented and disjointed to make any sense at present.

From photos it looked like he was simply using a commercially available PWM - I provided a link to it in an earlier post.

What electrolyte is FF's using in his working unit? Surely someone would have asked that. The only time he's mentioned an electrolyte was when he was showing a unit driven by straight DC on a workbench, when I think it was KOH, but that video along with two others has been deleted now.

Not in a million years is that WFC producing 55lpm, so that makes me immediately suspicious about anything and everything that is said thereafter. I am however trying my very hardest to give the guy the benefit of the doubt... but he ain't making it easy!

I take it you have not seen any schematics then Tad?

I feel I know you from some time back on the forums Tad... or would that be another Tad?

Some of you might find ZFF's comments of interest:

YouTube - #239 100% HHO FEC 2004 Dodge Pickup comments

Don't be too hard on the fellow. He did a damn fine job showing it can be done. From what I saw on his video's I can tell he's a good mechanic, not an electrical engineer. He needs a good rf engineer at his side, IMHO.

[Guest]

air-space

I'm a bit confused as to why the thing was using
so many stainless steel electrode pairs in just
one container. Its got to be a giant container,
whereas the required pressure might be easily
attained with less spacious attributes.

If the volume of gas being produced in one
second equaled 1:5 the volume of the 'empty' space
in the container, wouldn't it take around 10sec
to get 30psi?

[UncleFester]

Thanks Tad

Well it would seem he's well enough to be making the videos - I just wish he'd cut to the chase. He sure as hell seems in no hurry to disclose anything useful.

Let's face it, if he does intend to fully disclose he's going about it all wrong. He should provide the schematics, the important or critical information and then go into more depth and details once everyone has seen the big picture. It's all too fragmented and disjointed to make any sense at present.

From photos it looked like he was simply using a commercially available PWM - I provided a link to it in an earlier post.

What electrolyte is FF's using in his working unit? Surely someone would have asked that. The only time he's mentioned an electrolyte was when he was showing a unit driven by straight DC on a workbench, when I think it was KOH, but that video along with two others has been deleted now.

Not in a million years is that WFC producing 55lpm, so that makes me immediately suspicious about anything and everything that is said thereafter. I am however trying my very hardest to give the guy the benefit of the doubt... but he ain't making it easy!

I take it you have not seen any schematics then Tad?

I feel I know you from some time back on the forums Tad... or would that be another Tad?

Some of you might find ZFF's comments of interest:

YouTube - #239 100% HHO FEC 2004 Dodge Pickup comments

They didn't give my guys any schematics, but they did mention a few details. Apprently there is a low frequency around 7.8Hz and a higher frequency in the 10Khz range? It interfered with the radio and such I am told, so it must be producing RFI. I believe they said it was Sodium hydroxide or KOH, one of the two. I will try to get the details again from them.

The team consisted of a Nasa scientist (retired) who specialized in hydrogen systems, and a couple of potential investors. They didn't send me or my friend which was too bad. They spent alot of money getting everyone there for the last showing of the technology which didn't make anyone very happy when it was a no-show, but everyone is still waiting for more details.

The fact that it was supposed to be an "potential investors meeting" makes me even a bit more suspicious. But what do I know? They could have something working I guess.

This is the Tad (Johnson) who has been around since the 90's working on Meyer H2 systems and high voltage Gray systems.

[Farrah Day]

Don't be too hard on the fellow. He did a damn fine job showing it can be done. From what I saw on his video's I can tell he's a good mechanic, not an electrical engineer. He needs a good rf engineer at his side, IMHO.

The problem is Lamare, has he really shown it can be done... or just shown us what we want to see? It's just that this is the umpteenth time that overunity claims such has this have been made with no fully independent verification, and have ulimately come to nothing. I just see it quickly heading that way at present.

Let's be honest, if he's really doing what he claims to be doing then this could, and likely would, change the face of the world we live in. Was it just bad luck that his planned demo never took place... ??

Geotron, there are clearly some things not adding up.

Ah yes, Tad Johnson, I thought the name rang a bell, I remember reading something with your name on it a few years back.

It still could be just a basic PWM providing both those frequencies couldn't it.

Are you due to see the unit again? Another demo?