Future Energy hydroxy cell

[Farrah Day]

Well, there are a few new Fast Freddy videos posted, but... there's something very strange about them.

Those of you with a keener eye for detail might just notice that Fast Fred's hair has grown about 8 inches since last weeks video... which begs the question: What the heck is he playing at? It's all getting a little 'Twilight Zone' weirder now, indeed in one of these newly posted videos he does nothing but show you his workshop, the machinery and do a bit of marketing for his guns!

He does however state some things of interest, one being that he uses 2 teaspoons of KOH to a gallon of distilled water and another thing is that his smaller tubes have a resonant frequency of 14.7 Hz... (at least they do now... did then?? ) And, yes, that's Hertz, not kilohertz! And one of the Schumann frequencies I believe. He states that the large central tubes resonate at around 19Hz.

Does anyone actually believe that the natural resonant frequency of any of those ss tubes is anywhere near as low as 19Hz... because I for one don't! In fact I'm no longer inclined to believe anything FF says, as clearly he doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about.

Things are going downhill fast now and I for one have just about given up on this guy and his, next to pointless, videos.

[citfta]

Give up on the guy?

How can you be ready to give up on the guy since you have made it clear you never believed in him in the first place? Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen anything that convinces me he has anything to offer but you sound like a broken record. You just keep saying the same thing over and over. I think all of us reading this thread are sure you have no faith in FF. We got that message several pages ago. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. We understand you don't have any faith in FF. Now do you understand that we understand you don't have any faith in FF? How about if you take a break from your posting so we can get a rest. Sorry for the rant but this is really getting old.

Carroll

[Farrah Day]

No Carroll, I was initially prepared to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I've been merely attempting to highlight oddities and inconsistencies. However, just to make it very clear, you do understand don't you, that I no longer have any faith in Fast Freddy.

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Funny why Freddy posted some real old videos.
The CFM in those old videos was really LPM at that time, it was an error.
The frequency seems to be still the same.

I know it gets old when people just beat around the bush and through curves but I have a little faith left that there is really something here.

It will take a while but I will still work on this single pipe set tuning when I get the wave recorder set-up. Then eventually weld the studs and install a coil.

[rick123]

Carroll
I think FD is being lvl headed, I share his skepticism. IMO, and I think FD would agree, if we were in Freddy's position and wanting to share everything, we could accomplish it with one 10-minute u-tube video or one PDF that everyone could upload. Very simple: here is everything, here is how I did it, know go for it. Done and done.

FD in your previous post on the HZ, I think Freddy was talking about the PWM not the tones of the tubes. And ya those videos have Zero organization or categorization to them. Is he selling guns or teaching about WFC? LOL

I am about ready to build this, I got everything ready to go in my shop. I just can't afford to get it wrong and build it twice. I got an awesome new cell container and design all planed out. So I am just waiting.....

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Observations of quality of tone:
The 2" x 6" pipe tone I have is like a full spectrum audible sound with harmonics and rings\chimes for several seconds after tapped.
I assume this pipe is annealed and relieved of stresses properly.

The 1.75" x 7" pipe tone is (blah) although I can hear the tone its subdued and no lengthy ringing. This pipe is stressed and needs annealing for relief.
Its not lively like the previous pipe.

Another item to work on.

[Farrah Day]

Rick, in one video FF stated that the tubes resonated at 14.7Hz and in another one he was talking about modifying an Ebay PWM to match this frequency. Why he's showing us videos from when he was a hippy, is anyones guess, but I really don't see where they fit in with open sourcing the new build. Talk about arse-end backwards.

The problem we all constantly face is pseudoscience - some of it intentional bull crap to make the claimant look more knowledgeable than he or she really is, but much of it unintentional and proffered simply by way of explanation. The thing is, if someone is making claims, then people tend to assume that the person making those claims must actually know what they are talking about. Of course the truth is that this is most often not the case. The implosion myth and rusting pistons being a case in point - and that's something that's been around for years and which some people still believe to be an issue!

It's sometimes difficult to extract scientific facts from mere conjecture when faced with such claims, so I tend to doubt it all unless real facts are evident or in time make themselves known. People can also become brainwashed by it all, particularly those who have no grounding or understanding of science in the first place. To them some of the quackery is easier to relate to and far easier to understand than real science.

Rick, I've been doing some more experimenting, and I've learned and confirmed quite a bit of late, and some of this is starting to come together in my mind, and... some pieces are actually looking like they will fit together!

Stay patient with your WFC, I think I'm going to be putting mine back into service soon. With a few modifications, a few tweaks, and now a good deal more insight into what is occuring, I'm rather hoping to see some results.

[rick123]

Anyone have any thoughts on the purpose of the epoxy Freddy talks about?

10% mixture of what? Iron shavings?
Type of epoxy: silicone, J-B weld?
Purpose: Better stabilization of the tubes, small amount of conduction? High resistance?

The black tar found in a compositor is used only as an insulator? Correct?

[Farrah Day]

Anyone have any thoughts on the purpose of the epoxy Freddy talks about?

10% mixture of what? Iron shavings?
Type of epoxy: silicone, J-B weld?
Purpose: Better stabilization of the tubes, small amount of conduction? High resistance?

The black tar found in a compositor is used only as an insulator? Correct?

He said somewhere that it was iron oxide - otherwise known as rust - that he added to the epoxy resin. Who knows why? Why would you want any conduction through the epoxy resin base?

Don't know what you're refering to regarding black tar.

[adam_mizer]

No not exactly rust! (Black colored powder).

Check Wikipedia for a better definition, it states somewhere should not be confused with rust.
Iron II oxide is ferrous oxide FEO
Iron II III oxide is FE3O4 and can contain rust.
Fe3O4 is used as a catalyst in the Haber process and in the water gas shift reaction. Fe3O4 was used as an attemp to lower the reaction temperature of this process.

He stated 10% and it also had something to do with smoothing out the cell capacitance while pulsing?? Never heard of it and what or who gave him this idea? Interesting and seems to work for him. I agree it would be nice to hear an explanation.

As for epoxy, I'm sure there are many and you suggested JB Weld, Silicon (rubber) is not an epoxy. Other epoxy may be potting compound, 2 part epoxy/resin. Epoxy should be selected for the application, water-proof, adherance to plastic housing material and metal, most likely temperature too!
Black tar also used in lighting ballasts, but can melt-down when too much heat is present.

Looking at what little pictures we have available there is a shot from the top looking in and the epoxy appears dark. Then the shot I uploaded from the bottom and some epoxy has been added looks like white-cloudy stuff.

[Farrah Day]

No not exactly rust! (Black colored powder).

Interesting Adam, as far as I was aware RUST is simply the generic name commonly used for any oxide of iron. Rather confusingly the Wiki piece calls it 'rusted iron' in the first sentence, then later, as you rightly indicate, goes on to say it should not be confused with 'rust'?

Iron(II) oxide, also known as ferrous oxide, iron oxide/oxidized iron or more commonly rusted iron, is one of the iron oxides. It is a black-colored powder with the chemical formula FeO. It consists of the chemical element iron in the oxidation state of 2 bonded to oxygen. Its mineral form is known as wüstite. Iron(II) oxide should not be confused with rust, which usually consists of hydrated iron(III) oxide (ferric oxide). Iron(II) oxide is an example of a non-stoichiometric compound and the ratio of the elements iron and oxygen can vary, samples are typically iron deficient with a compositions ranging from Fe0.84O to Fe0.95O.[2]

I'm not always right, but neither is Wiki, it may just be down to semantics. So were assuming FF is doping his epoxy resin with iron oxide II, (or possibly magnetite - which Wiki do state is also referred to as rust)) but I guess none of this is meaningful unless FF decides to elaborate.

[Vickers]

Iron is used as resistor. But whatever.
Only thing that interest me here is hot pressurized HHO? delivered via fuel injection.

Will get (hopefully dry steam.. ) /HHO?/air mix.
Nice little pressure imbalance.

[adam_mizer]

FF Cell

Yes the iron powder is interesting and if we take Freddy's word for it, it seems to aid in his process. We won't know until we try it in a build ourselves.

I'm concentrating on the pipe quality. It really bothers me that I have noticed with sample pipes accumulated that some ring with enhanced harmonics ring/chime tones and others ping but do not produce the full spectrum of ringing.

Welded pipe has a lot of stress at the weld seam and a slight deformation, I'm thinking about making some calls to find a oven somewhere to use or someone that knows about and can do annealing. Or...
Higher quality for our tuning purpose may be purchase seamless annealed type from the start. It would be pointless to create a real test of tuning without the quality of tone in the pipe.

It is pretty easy to find the pipe in 304 with the higher quality and much harder to find 316L, or at least the .035" thick 1" is hard to find. I'm having a problem deciding here, as the 304 performed pretty good in the cell in the past.

Wow, nice Reason1st I see its slowly coming around.

[Vickers]

LOL...I wish I had of bought shares in Stainless Steel.

[Farrah Day]

Thanks for that post Reason, every little piece of info helps. I like the look of Freddy's new website, lets hope the info there lives up to the new look.

This piece of text I found most interesting. However, I really think that some of the things he states have to be taken with a pinch of salt. 'Ions that mix with HHO to form heavy gas molecules'?? How can he possibly know this? Answer: He can't. The logical explanation then becomes this is mere conjecture. Which of course then spreads like wildfire as being scientific fact!

Pressure
..HHO generally cannot be compressed safely. If you compress it above 15 psi, it may auto ignite with great force destroying the container and causing great danger.
..We believe our version 6c built with 9 outer tube sets and one inner tube set solves the problem in this way: The outer tube sets generate the HHO gas and the inner tube set releases ions that mix with the HHO to form a heavy gas molecule. We know this because after delivering the gas to a large open container we can wait several minutes and then ignite the contents and the gas making a loud bang. If the gas was just HHO, the hydrogen (being lighter than air) would rise and be lost; therefore, no reaction.
..This heavy gas can also be generated in a dry cell if there are several neutral plates in the cell because the neutral plates give off ions.
..We have been able to compress the heavy HHOi (HHO+ions) to over 100 psi without any problems. We have developed this new nomenclature, HHOi for what we think is a heavy version of HHO.

I have nothing against theorising and speculation, but I hate it when people talk about such things as if they know this to be irrefutable fact! I hate it even more when they are unable to either answer questions or provide the science to back up such statements.

I see from his website that he's still claiming that his cell produces over 50lpm. With this in mind, I think he should forget running his truck on HHO and all the technicalities that that involves for a moment, and simply get a creditable body to independently verified this claimed 55lpm gas output from his WFC. This way he would immediately gain a lot of credibility, overcome a lot of scepticsm... and, dare I say, shut the likes of me up!

It seems to me that the very way people such as FF go about things is what creates the most initial controversy. I mean, why didn't he simply drive his working truck to NASA and let them have a look? Or drive it to a University? No instead, he apparently drives it 3000 miles and then blows the unit up before a pending live demo... Sod's Law or what?