Meyer WFC Opposite voltage potential and Capacitor

[smallengtech]

I have been lurking around this forum for over a year and have learned a lot from various members posts. I have built and have been experimenting with the Lawton size cell and circuit, while incorporating a transformer, diode, and resonant chokes. I believe I have hit a dead end, as many have, in finding resonance or high voltage and it appears that it is a more efficient form of a Faraday type process but not the Meyer's way.

I have read through Meyer's tech brief yet again and have set up a new experiment based on it. I am curious to know if anyone has attempted to set up a single tube cell as Stan calls for in a patent 4936961 and drive it with opposite voltage potential with an isolated ground as called for in the tech brief 8-6.

I am not ready to provide actual figures as to voltage, current, frequency, or actual size/dimensions of components yet because I have just thrown together various pieces to see if anything would happen.

The following is to give a rough idea as to what I am working with at the moment and the results achieved.

The transformer I wound consist of one primary coil and two secondary coils. Not sure of the turns ratio but I do know it is close to a 5:1 step up. The primary is driven by the Lawton circuit at 12vdc pulsed with variable freq & mark/space. The secondary output is +560 - 0 - -560 peak-peak and 180 out of phase. The circuit uses an isolated ground as Meyer specified and currently I do not have resonant choke in place. I use a 1n4007 diode on each leg going to the cell. When I operate this set up I get a small amount of HHO produced with no measurable current on either leg to the cell using an AC or DC amp clamp. I have also witnessed a step charge while gating (possibly what he calls Dynamic State Space). While the gating is turned off it would create what he calls Static State Space. When the power is turned off the charge that the water has taken on can be seen and it takes several seconds for the charge to decrease from several volts to close to zero. The charge the water takes on can also be seen during the off cycle in gated operation. When the frequency is adjusted with the cell in the water bath I can obtain 150-600 volts. Possibly tuning into the resonance of the transformer?

So far with thrown together parts and at first glance it appears to be functioning close to what Meyer's claims. Further testing will tell.

I have seen others state that once they get a working system they will post it full disclosure but when they "get it working" they never post or duck back into the shadows. I am here because I want to learn more and share my experiments and experiences. Any insight or comments positive or negative will be welcomed.

Also, before I get bashed by someone. The transformer was measured with a scope from the high side to ct and the ct to the low side in open circuit configuration and the voltage did not change much when the cell was placed into the water bath.

Smallengtech

[smallengtech]

Just performed a few more tests of the transformer with the cell dry. When I measured from the high side of the transformer to the low side I had zero volts. But when I measure from the ct to the high side or the low side I get +-500 volts. Meyers states that we want voltages of opposite polarity with little to no current flowing. Meyer talks about creating static voltage fields of opposite polarity and I think this transformer meets the requirement.

smallengtech

[UncleFester]

Here is the Eccles information..

Tad

[smallengtech]

Thank you Tad,
I had found the the patent after you pm'ed me. That patent relates to electrodes that are not placed in direct contact the water. The method I am working with is electrodes placed in direct contact with the water. Following the lines of Meyer and Puharich.

Just a few more thoughts to possibly peak some interest and maybe new understanding.

The more I read the Meyer Tech brief the more I think I understand what he was doing. I feel the same as others in that Meyers was very deceptive in the way he presents things in his patents and his tech brief. I also have read the tech brief enough times and have learned that it is a collection of all of his designs, thoughts, or experiments.

For over two years I have been working with the wfc with no "real" success. Every thing I did resulted in the need to pass an activation current through the cell. I recently started to look at the information presented and started to ignore what Meyer has drawn for circuits and started to build it by what he says, by picking out what I feel was pertinent information, to try to replicate.

Examples:
At one point either in one of his videos or through his text he stated that until you hit a point of circuit resonance there will be little to no gas production. Based on that, if you build it like I and others have by using the Lawton, Ravi, or even Meyer's plans as shown, you instantly have gas production and you tune to try to find resonance- just the opposite of what Meyers says.

In one of his videos hew stated that there was no need for resistive wire but he had included it to protect his patents. He stated that he tried to lock up the patents in a way that if someone were to try to patent a system that touched the water with voltage they would be in violation of his patent. So that may do away with the need for high resistance in the circuit.

Through most all of his patents he talks about opposite voltage potential being applied to the plates of the cell and then in Chapter 8 of the tech brief he refers to voltage pulse-sync. He talks about current being restricted in the VIC but what if the transformer of the VIC is wound in such a way to inhibit current flow and allow voltage potential to increase without the resonant charging chokes while giving positive and negative pulse-sync voltage?

How about having two capacitor plates in one container that share a common dielectric liquid and ground that forms a coupled dual RLC circuit?

Meyers had at one point stated that the variable resonant charging choke on the lower end of his VIC circuit was to electrically balance the circuit while tuning into the dielectric properties of water.. What if it was to adjust the resonant frequency of the negative/lower leg since the inner water capacitor plate surface area is smaller then the positive plate?

These are just a few thoughts that I hope may spark some interest. I know a lot of people have tried to replicate and never got the results that Meyer stated. MAYBE.... with a new perspective and slight modifications we might be able to unlock this thing!! For all of us that have built a WFC.... We might be able to get our use out of what we have built, shelfed, and is now collecting dust!!!

Smallengtech

[UncleFester]

For over two years I have been working with the wfc with no "real" success. Every thing I did resulted in the need to pass an activation current through the cell. I recently started to look at the information presented and started to ignore what Meyer has drawn for circuits and started to build it by what he says, by picking out what I feel was pertinent information, to try to replicate.

Examples:
At one point either in one of his videos or through his text he stated that until you hit a point of circuit resonance there will be little to no gas production. Based on that, if you build it like I and others have by using the Lawton, Ravi, or even Meyer's plans as shown, you instantly have gas production and you tune to try to find resonance- just the opposite of what Meyers says.


Smallengtech

Stan also told me that "resistance was the key" once the system was built and functional. I have also found that a very small capacitor 500pF or so in parallel with the cell helps keep the cell charge more stable. I don't have any time to work on this at the moment but the circuit is already built, I just need another electronic gas flow meter and to build a larger cell. I will most likely have time to do this later in the winter.

Tad

[smallengtech]

Tad,
Thank you for the info. Again I am no EE but I do have an open mind and can learn. Thanks again for any insight you can supply.
If I may.... The circuit that you have ready to go, is it a Lawton style 555 pulse generator and how well did you know Stan? Please pm me if you wish.

Smallengtech

[UncleFester]

Tad,
Thank you for the info. Again I am no EE but I do have an open mind and can learn. Thanks again for any insight you can supply.
If I may.... The circuit that you have ready to go, is it a Lawton style 555 pulse generator and how well did you know Stan? Please pm me if you wish.

Smallengtech

Processor only. Only easy way I know of to get an automatic sweep for resonance going, and far more simple for me than 555's, 3525A, etc. Can have these circuits together and programmed in less than an hour, and they are totally automated when looking for anomalies across a range of 100Hz to 100Khz or so. I also have a digital DDS circuit that the processor can run when I need a 0 to 10Mhz sweep if needed.

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I talked to Stan through a friend of mine JW who was good friends with him. That way I could ask questions without putting him in defensive mode. Stan was pretty secretive in those days.

Tad

[smallengtech]

Tad,
Thanks for the video clip!!! It looks like I may still have a lot to learn. I take it you have built a small cell of some kind. Were you able to get a high rate of production and at what cost (power)? If I recall correctly, Stan said a 3/4" by 4" tube cell could dissociate up to 5 Gal/hr. and all this while using a small toroid step-up transformer with a secondary winding made of 36 mag wire?

Smallengtech

[UncleFester]

Tad,
Thanks for the video clip!!! It looks like I may still have a lot to learn. I take it you have built a small cell of some kind. Were you able to get a high rate of production and at what cost (power)? If I recall correctly, Stan said a 3/4" by 4" tube cell could dissociate up to 5 Gal/hr. and all this while using a small toroid step-up transformer with a secondary winding made of 36 mag wire?

Smallengtech

Sure thing. I have not worked on the Meyer system for 12-15 years. The first system I built was using a small inverter that ran at 20Khz, I modified the oscillator portion of the circuit to run up to 45Khz. I used a multiplier on the output to bump the voltage up. The cell was very small and used spacing similar to what Meyer stated. The output from the cell had a gas flow sensor
from Cole parmer:

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I measured 200LPH @ 15 watts once the cell was tuned. It took me 6 months or more of playing with the system before I saw any gas production. It was very frustrating because Stan and his brother Steve acted as though it was simple to get it going, but it wasn't for me at least. Then when I tried to scale it up to run a small generator from it I found that it would not produce gas with the added electrodes:

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I was so frustrated at the thought that I would might have to spend months retuning the new larger cell that I gave up in disgust. I was excited when I first saw gas production but I realized it might be years before I saw an engine run on it. I had already spent tens of thousands of dollars and years messing with it that I knew I was in over my head.

Although if I had the knowledge I do now regarding processor controls and automated tuning and sampling techniques it might be much easier. If I did attempt it again I would use these systems and a setup more like JLN used on his replication. I would let the processor take A/D samples from the gas flow meter and then find the most output over a given range of frequencies thereby eliminating the months of tuning. The programming would be similar to the maximum power power tracking for solar charge controllers in the it would constantly look for the highest output regardless of cell temperature etc. These things are a must because I found my cell would change temperature and would then need to be re-tuned.

The circuits I use now are all isolated on the power supply side, optically isolated from the drivers, and capable of hot swapping mosfets or IGBT modules, so it makes everything very fast and does not blow up with high voltage transients etc. That is also needed in these Meyer replications I believe.

I am by far no guru when it comes to the Meyer process and there are probably even better ways to do it, but the above is the culmination of what I have done thus far.

P.S. Stan told me he could break one gallon of water per minute at 10Kv potential. As crazy as it sounds he might have been right I guess.

Tad

[smallengtech]

Thanks again Tad,

That is some great input.

Smallengtech

[sebosfato]

Thanks tad for this infos

could you please post your setup that worked with all the components and schematic you used... like the coils, wire type, transformer, full wave bridge... capacitors, electrodes,,,

would be nice to understand what you did...

was it distilled water?

YouTube - Magnet effect on pulsed current .m4v

Best Regards

[Slovenia]

Great Setup Sebosfato

Sebosfato,

Great Setup!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Thanks tad for this infos

could you please post your setup that worked with all the components and schematic you used... like the coils, wire type, transformer, full wave bridge... capacitors, electrodes,,,

would be nice to understand what you did...

was it distilled water?

YouTube - Magnet effect on pulsed current .m4v

Best Regards

[sebosfato]

Thanks for looking at the video.

My best production ever was using my resonant recirculating current and was about 88% faraday

Now i'm working on another new way... Basically the frequency will be a bit arbitrary and i will use unipolar pulses to create the high voltage pulses to crack the water... using that inductor with iron rods inside...

i will shot 10khz, 0-120 volts pulses to the coil and use electron extraction to eject the electron from the water... in nano seconds creating high voltage pulses...

[UncleFester]

Thanks tad for this infos

could you please post your setup that worked with all the components and schematic you used... like the coils, wire type, transformer, full wave bridge... capacitors, electrodes,,,

would be nice to understand what you did...

was it distilled water?

YouTube - Magnet effect on pulsed current .m4v

Best Regards

I used distilled water always. Never tried any electrolytes because I didn't want electrolysis. It's been more than a decade since I did these tests, but I will try to remember the components. The driving circuit was a simple 12V-600V inverter. Off the shelf unit from Fry's electronics. It used a small ferrox cube core transformer. It ran in the 20 Khz range if I remember correctly. I modified the oscillator portion to run at around 40Khz and used a multiplier on the output to get 1200V. Cell was in the low nanofarad range. I used two ferrite cored chokes just like Stan had in the simple setup.

Electrodes were 400 series stainless I got from an aircraft salvage store. The man told me they were 421 stainless tubes. I had never heard of such an alloy but that's what he said they were.

Startup of the cell was tough because you have to have enough current to get the cell charged, but the current needs to drop eventually before you burn out the transformer. The cell leaks energy very rapidly, or at least in my case it did. This is one of the reasons it took me so long to replicate because I had to keep playing with the circuit until I saw maximum power supply voltage across the cell. But even then in between pulses the cell voltage was dropping rapidly, not like a normal capacitor.

Most of the attempts at replication by others also had this problem as well. You need enough current to get the process started but once the cell is charged and step charging properly, then you can back off the duty cycle, or the amount of pulses being sent to the cell.

I might play with another cell sometime in the future but when I remember all I went through back then, it leaves me thinking that I would rather not

Tad

[UncleFester]

Sebosfato
what is best production of hho what you measured with your system?

btw
Tad claimed to had produced 200LPH @ 15 watts and Mayer claimed to drive 1600ccm engine with 7 liters of hho. So means it is not key to have some abnormal production of hho.
Posible i am wrong

However will be great to replicate this experiment of 200LPH @ 15 watts .

regards

I think you are right about the amount of hydrogen to run an engine because I have seen that with many other tests, but I don't know why. Unless it has to do with the type of isotope that is being produced by the cell. Para-hydrogen or Ortho-hydrogen. That could be the key to it.

Tad