None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

I have seen that Aaron, you are correct. However, there are several different versions. A couple with no ground, one that looks remarkably like a Tesla coil or an ignition coil (grounded inner wire of secondary), and one with a grounded water bath. It may be a misdirection/confusion tactic?

However, his ungrounded steam resonator is remarkably similar to Robert Eccles UK patent GB2324307A where opposite AC electrical stresses create mono-atomic O and H by ion collision. He even references Stan's patent and says his does the same thing, but without the need to keep track of pulse width to compensate for ion progression (because Eccles uses a higher dielectric than water to insulate his electrodes). He states that at some point Stan's process would start to behave like conventional electrolysis.

I believe this is the same as Tay-Hee-Han's US patent 4427512. Even though Han doesn't outright say it, I believe the mono-atomic species are the reason for the high heat resistant porcelain insulating housing.

[Aaron]

electrostatic separation of water

I believe this is the same as Tay-Hee-Han's US patent 4427512. Even though Han doesn't outright say it, I believe the mono-atomic species are the reason for the high heat resistant porcelain insulating housing.

Tay Hee Han is pure electrostatic separation (voltage potential). We built
this at Peter's shop. It did not perform as we wanted. It was suggested
that we try it with barium titanate plates. I used aluminum plates that were
completely coated in super corona dope - a xylene dielectric for high voltage
use. Had about 1mm thick coating on each plate and at 4kv per mil that is
about 40,000 per plate or a total of 80,000 volts of electrostatic stress
we can place the distilled water under. The gap was about 0.5mm.

Anyway, was not that different than the Eccles cell I believe. I remember
when I did that test that there was some French experiments on the
Eccles cell and they were getting very good results. That was about 2-3
years ago.

[gravityblock]

Below is a few quotes I found in a publication titled, "Hydrogen-induced disintegration of fullerenes and nanotubes".

Molecular hydrogen does not dissociate on planar graphene, but does so with an energy gain on fullerenes, with the dissociated hydrogen pair preferentially binding on top of adjacent carbon atoms.

We found that the energy needed to break one bond is larger than the energy to break two adjacent bonds, shown in a dark color in the left panel of Fig. 2(c). Continuing this concerted bond breaking mechanism should cleave the edge, causing the structure to disintegrate

Consequently, the calculated transition paths for the disintegration of hydrogenated fullerenes and nanotubes represent the optimum cleavage path in unconstrained systems. Following an initial energy investment of 1.7 eV, the bonds break abruptly, leading to the final structure depicted in the right panel of Fig. 2(c). There is a net energy gain of ~2 eV associated with the bond breaking, caused by releasing the accumulated stress.

Our results indicate that the energy barrier to propagate the fracture decreases at successive steps. As a matter of fact, it may be reasonable to assume that the energy released following the initial step may activate the zipperlike cleavage at the crease without further energy investment. Once cleavage is initiated, the unzipping process transforms the stressed crease into two overlapping graphene edges in an exothermic reaction.

Staffman at the other forum, found a patent on isolating fullerenes. It says the fullerenes in soot, contained in a quartz vessel, can be evaporated by microwaves in seconds. The fullerenes gas, brown stuff, then condenses on the walls of the vessel.

GB

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

The odd difference on the Eccles cell is the that there are 4 electrodes total (like Stan's steam resonator) and they are arranged in two opposed pairs that pulse alternately. The effect that makes it create any usable products is essentially the same as a multipactor effect (the pulses needed could easily be created by two identical transformers wired in series, but wired in opposite rotation...creating synchronous mirrored pulses that you can then criss-cross outputs and create a positive pulse at the same time as a negative pulse)
The "multipactor-like" effect is that the ions are forced back towards the electrode they were just leaving and create dense layers that form mono-atomic species that react and produce molecular species that can be released as gas.

This process creates excess heat in abundance. By atomic friction, not amperage. "Steam resonator"

[gravityblock]

A small particle of carboxy fullerene is placed on top of heat sensitive explosive. Irradiation with a 785 nm laser (1W) results in an instantaneous explosion. In the absence of carboxy fullerenes, the laser with output power of (5W), failed to ignite the explosives.

Molecular hydrogen will dissociate with a net gain in energy on fullerenes. The dissociated hydrogen pair or atomic hydrogen then bond on top of the adjacent carbon atoms to the fullerenes cage. This atomic hydrogen bonding to the fullerenes cage releases stress which allows the bonds of the carbon atoms to be broken abruptly with another net gain in energy. The energy barrier to propagate the fracture decreases at successive steps. The energy released following the initial step, may activate the zipperlike cleavage at the crease without further energy investment (run-away effect or chain reaction).

GB

[superman9976]

Mike

you only have to think about where are there problems of CO2 in the world and you have your answer, of course a good source for both CO2 and water is sea water, which even has the catylist included "salt".

I have documented various different molecular manipulation systems which all are based on frequency irradiation and vibration of the molecules of different molecular structures, such as water, and recombining with the aid of a catalyst to form new molecular compounds.

Mike

After you posted this I found a site that states the atmosphere is about 400 ppm carbon dioxide and rising which of course they always say its global warming. I'm not sure it even exists since we have had more snow in one day then we have had in years here in my state. But one thing that is rising and doesn't seem like its coming down anytime soon is our damn gasoline! So Mike whenever you're ready please tell me where to send the money for one of your boards. I am really hoping they will be available soon the cost of living is just becoming unbearable for me. Need a way to reduce it or at least start reducing it. My brother has the plasma ignition system basically worked out. The reaction chamber shouldn't be too hard to work out. I see that you directing people to come look at this thread. At this point I just don't have enough knowledge to build a working board which is why I am asking. It all sounds so amazing and I would like a chance to start experimenting with this technology.

Oh and one more thing can I take say Instant Ocean for fish tanks and make sea water that would work in the reaction chamber?

Chris

[Karl]

So? what's happening here?
Was there not going to be some big announcement from Aarron & some other chap re this tech in January or did I read it wrong? Is this one that we should leave on the back boiler or can we have some updates on developments, proes & cons etc

[Harvey]

So? what's happening here?
Was there not going to be some big announcement from Aarron & some other chap re this tech in January or did I read it wrong? Is this one that we should leave on the back boiler or can we have some updates on developments, proes & cons etc

Prior to the conference Mike had asked me to start on the board layout for some kits, which I did start on. I found some minor problems and brought those to Mike's attention and awaited his response. Upon his return from the conference it was brought to my attention that some of the members felt my involvement was unsatisfactory so I withdrew my offer to do the board designs to allow the rest of the group to move ahead unfettered by my association with the project.

I have spoken with Mike on Skype with regards to other things, and it is my understanding that the 'kits' for this project were being handled by someone else apart from myself. I imagined that the conference was videoed and that part the hype was to get people either to the conference or to at least purchase the videos in order to understand what is needed in full detail. So that could possibly perhaps maybe in some small way be a reason for why there is a dearth of information in this thread regarding the particulars and specifics. But, Aaron has produced results with his experiments and Mike has offered some very direct information here in this thread regarding the frequencies and how they are tied together in a specific phase relationship.

I've noticed too that others have begun replicating on their own and I don't find any real check list regarding what should not be done or what must be done in order to succeed. I would think that a checklist is required at the bare minimum.

1. Frequency
2. Power
3. Fluid volumes and pressures
4. Fluid Composition (i.e. Water, Nitrogen etc.)
5. Flow Rates
6. Toxicity (i.e. Ammonia and Chlorine mixtures)
7. etc. etc.

Without specific values to plug into such a list we cannot expect anyone to succeed in full measure except my trial and error.

This is not the type of thing that college students experiment with in their basements - there are great dangers involved if not properly addressed. This is the stuff that scientists and industrial engineers experiment with in very controlled environments. So for the average OU enthusiast working in his garage it is imperative that they understand completely and fully all of the interactions involved in the most critical degree should they attempt to experiment with this technology. Let it be known that the risks are entirely on the experimenters shoulders and any liability is removed from those that share what they know.

I don't know what the current state of this particular project is in, but I do know that Mike has had his time focused on other much more important matters and I send my regards to him and his with understanding and fellow feeling.

[Armagdn03]

Prior to the conference Mike had asked me to start on the board layout for some kits, which I did start on. I found some minor problems and brought those to Mike's attention and awaited his response. Upon his return from the conference it was brought to my attention that some of the members felt my involvement was unsatisfactory so I withdrew my offer to do the board designs to allow the rest of the group to move ahead unfettered by my association with the project.

I have spoken with Mike on Skype with regards to other things, and it is my understanding that the 'kits' for this project were being handled by someone else apart from myself. I imagined that the conference was videoed and that part the hype was to get people either to the conference or to at least purchase the videos in order to understand what is needed in full detail. So that could possibly perhaps maybe in some small way be a reason for why there is a dearth of information in this thread regarding the particulars and specifics. But, Aaron has produced results with his experiments and Mike has offered some very direct information here in this thread regarding the frequencies and how they are tied together in a specific phase relationship.

I've noticed too that others have begun replicating on their own and I don't find any real check list regarding what should not be done or what must be done in order to succeed. I would think that a checklist is required at the bare minimum.

1. Frequency
2. Power
3. Fluid volumes and pressures
4. Fluid Composition (i.e. Water, Nitrogen etc.)
5. Flow Rates
6. Toxicity (i.e. Ammonia and Chlorine mixtures)
7. etc. etc.

Without specific values to plug into such a list we cannot expect anyone to succeed in full measure except my trial and error.

This is not the type of thing that college students experiment with in their basements - there are great dangers involved if not properly addressed. This is the stuff that scientists and industrial engineers experiment with in very controlled environments. So for the average OU enthusiast working in his garage it is imperative that they understand completely and fully all of the interactions involved in the most critical degree should they attempt to experiment with this technology. Let it be known that the risks are entirely on the experimenters shoulders and any liability is removed from those that share what they know.

I don't know what the current state of this particular project is in, but I do know that Mike has had his time focused on other much more important matters and I send my regards to him and his with understanding and fellow feeling.

Hello,

I dont believe the conference was videoed with respect to Mike other than a shaky cell phone rendition I saw one guy taking. There were maybe only a handful of people who sat and listened to Mike. It was my impression that this had been developed in the not too distant past, politics became involved, and the conference was a good place to seed the information into the public mind, asking for nothing in return.

[Harvey]

That's interesting, my sole reason for not attending the conference was because pictures and cell phones were prohibited. I had the ok from the foundation to attend but the funding was contingent upon providing a report with pictures so I called off the trip.

Now you are telling me that not only were independent pictures taken, but they were taken by a cell phone? It would have been nice to meet everyone in person. C'est la vie.

You are correct in your understanding that the technology was discovered many years ago and 'delayed' by some authoritative process. That delay ended which gave Mike the green light to share the information.

Looking back through the thread we see a post from Mike saying the electronic boards were in the final stage of production. I'm sure there is some cost and expected returns associated with their dispensation. But I do agree that Mike freely shared the information related to his discovery with no expectation of anything in return.

[Aaron]

frequency mixing

@all,

Everyone at the conference signed an agreement not to take pics or
bring in their cell phones. When John said, ok, you can ONE big picture
of the big wheel, countless people busted out cameras and cell phones.
Serious integrity issue with people signing agreements that have no
intention of keeping to their word!

In regards to Mike's talk, it certainly wasn't used as bait to get more
people to the conference. Mike didn't make any money from the conference
and had to pay to get in like everyone else.

His talk was in the back of a lobby after everything was over one night.

Any video was poor quality and not very usable. I wasn't there for most
of it but came in after. However, the beginning from what I saw was in
the hall under the lights where you could actually see what is going on.
Then a guard made them move to a dark spot that you couldn't see
anything.

Anyway, the talk went over details but the fundamentals were
what has already been stated in principle. Two frequencies in said
frequency range spread 6 times apart to two antennas.

Unless someone is a rf engineer and can make rf boards, forget about
considering this as a do it yourself project - not to deter anyone, but you
would have to go through many learning curves dealing with rf protocol,
strip lines, blah blah blah.

There are radio hams all over the world, almost guaranteed to be some
in your own town. I'd suggest talking with them about making a circuit
that makes the two frequencies discussed, going through amps and sending
each to their own respective antenna in a shielded enclosure.

They (hams) may be the most open to talking about a project like this whether
they know what you intend to use it for or not. And as Harvey mentioned,
you have safety concerns.

Mike never asked for anything in return for sharing these concepts. From
what I believe at this point, all other methods are obsolete - they just
don't know it yet. That became obvious from the first time Mike shared
the concepts in this thread. I can't claim it is right, but it seems like
common sense considering everything.

Anyway, from a practical standpoint of anyone that wants to do something
themselves, there still is the entire arena of applying these concepts to
hv/high frequency between two electrodes mixing the frequencies as
described - in a lower range of course - also the possibility of using sound
in the same way. If I wanted to explore these concepts and didn't have
RF experience, I wouldn't be waiting around - I'd be exploring these others
areas applying the same concepts and if an RF solution presents itself,
then all the better.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Resonance

Hi All

Well I thought I would upload two shots from my spectrum anyliser to show what happens with two frequencies when they start to come into resonance with one another. The first is starting to come into resonance and the secound is NEARLY in full resonance, I say nearly as I had a very poor pot for tuning and it was difficult to get the exact shot that I wanted, but this gives you an idea.

This was a square wave and not sine wave and so not ideal. Please note what happens to the power of the frequencies when it goes into resonance, at full resonance the line is as good as straight right up to Ghz and beyond. These shots were limited to 0.6Mhz from DC and is X1 magnification.

I thought I had a scope shot saved of them in resonance but I could not have saved one, If I find time today I will post one, it is quite impressive.

Mike

[Harvey]

Thank you Aaron for the clarifications

Mike, thanks for sharing those Spectrum Shots

You can really see a rich supply of harmonics there! It almost reminds me of looking at the frequency spread for an arc.

If I understand your screen shots, this is the result of bringing two unchanging* square waves into resonance. When you say that the 'line' is as good as straight, I understand this to mean that the dBV amplitude is nearly constant throughout the band during resonance while just 'prior' to resonance it is seen to taper off as we climb in frequency. I'm not sure how your system converts the dBV into dBW (voltage as displayed into power) so I'm not sure what I am looking for with respects to the change in 'power' other than the difference between -9.69 dBV and -6.88 dBV.

A single square wave pulse is the sum of all odd harmonics. I discussed this over here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post97086

So it makes sense that we can get a huge quantity of harmonics out of a square wave. But to get them all at nearly the same amplitude is really something .

*unchanging, that is a constant frequency after being calibrated and set.

Cheers,

[tutanka]

@all,

Everyone at the conference signed an agreement not to take pics or
bring in their cell phones. When John said, ok, you can ONE big picture
of the big wheel, countless people busted out cameras and cell phones.
Serious integrity issue with people signing agreements that have no
intention of keeping to their word!

In regards to Mike's talk, it certainly wasn't used as bait to get more
people to the conference. Mike didn't make any money from the conference
and had to pay to get in like everyone else.

His talk was in the back of a lobby after everything was over one night.

Any video was poor quality and not very usable. I wasn't there for most
of it but came in after. However, the beginning from what I saw was in
the hall under the lights where you could actually see what is going on.
Then a guard made them move to a dark spot that you couldn't see
anything.

Anyway, the talk went over details but the fundamentals were
what has already been stated in principle. Two frequencies in said
frequency range spread 6 times apart to two antennas.

Unless someone is a rf engineer and can make rf boards, forget about
considering this as a do it yourself project - not to deter anyone, but you
would have to go through many learning curves dealing with rf protocol,
strip lines, blah blah blah.

There are radio hams all over the world, almost guaranteed to be some
in your own town. I'd suggest talking with them about making a circuit
that makes the two frequencies discussed, going through amps and sending
each to their own respective antenna in a shielded enclosure.

They (hams) may be the most open to talking about a project like this whether
they know what you intend to use it for or not. And as Harvey mentioned,
you have safety concerns.

Mike never asked for anything in return for sharing these concepts. From
what I believe at this point, all other methods are obsolete - they just
don't know it yet. That became obvious from the first time Mike shared
the concepts in this thread. I can't claim it is right, but it seems like
common sense considering everything.

Anyway, from a practical standpoint of anyone that wants to do something
themselves, there still is the entire arena of applying these concepts to
hv/high frequency between two electrodes mixing the frequencies as
described - in a lower range of course - also the possibility of using sound
in the same way. If I wanted to explore these concepts and didn't have
RF experience, I wouldn't be waiting around - I'd be exploring these others
areas applying the same concepts and if an RF solution presents itself,
then all the better.

Aaron,
Peoples waiting RF system promised some time ago from Mike. That is the point! At today I have read only more words on that fantastic RF system and nothing else. No video no photos.If Mike have changed idea or has signed a private contract should say so. What is the point of posting these pictures now? Seems to play like a cat with the mouse. Should be clear because we're adults and not monkeys. That's my opinion. Regards Alex

[Michael John Nunnerley]

scope shot of resonance 180degrees phase difference

This is the scope shot at 180 degrees out of phase, the first is with the two frequencies very close to the same and the secound is with the split frequency NEARLY in resonance, the third is taken at a very high sample rate to see what is really happening 1Gs/sec.

mike