None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[Duncan]

How elegant!

[Aaron]

basic crystal oscillator

Mike,

If you have a chance to answer some of the other questions, that
would be much appreciated! If you're too busy, no big deal.

@ Mike & All,

This seems to be about the most popular 20MHz crystal
http://www.rxdtech.com/pdf/mp49.pdf
If this is sufficient for the job, I'm ordering a few today.
With shipping about $3.50 USD each and shipping can be
reduced per item for multiple pieces.

This is the circuit I'm going to build, simplest I can come up with
so far:



Is there any concern about needing it to be square wave or sin wave
or can this signal from this oscillator simply be plugged into the doubler?

[DrStiffler]

Mike,

If you have a chance to answer some of the other questions, that
would be much appreciated! If you're too busy, no big deal.

@ Mike & All,

This seems to be about the most popular 20MHz crystal
http://www.rxdtech.com/pdf/mp49.pdf
If this is sufficient for the job, I'm ordering a few today.
With shipping about $3.50 USD each and shipping can be
reduced per item for multiple pieces.

This is the circuit I'm going to build, simplest I can come up with
so far:



Is there any concern about needing it to be square wave or sin wave
or can this signal from this oscillator simply be plugged into the doubler?

@Aaron

Aaron you are asking some questions that do not have text book answers, only text book rules of thumb. To answer if this will go into a doubler the answer is most likely yes with a lot caveats, you will need to know the output impedance of this oscillator and the input impedance of the doubler, like will the doubler be a IC or a FET or a bipolar. You need to know the output peak to peak so you can determine how to bias the doubler. Then you need to know how clean the output is so that you can determine how much and if you need and bandpass filters. You may even need an amp after the double and then an impedance match to the power amp either active or static depending on the final power available from the last stage.

Simply put it would take the better part of a day to but the info into Spice and get a clean working circuit. I'm not sure who is going to really build this, but one needs to be familiar with Spice or some other design program or spend a lot of cut and solder time and some slide rule manipulation.

I hope you don't take my response wrong, its not a simple task to do it and feel you have what is specified and give one that warm feeling when looking for results.

We are totally bogged down here until after the first of the year. After that I just might do a circuit design unless Mike presents something before.

Sorry if I wasted the text.... and did not provide what you wanted.

[Aaron]

audio source from laptop

Sorry if I wasted the text.... and did not provide what you wanted.

That does answer more of what I need to know. I don't know what I don't know but now I know a little more. lol

I have a free spice version but never bothered to use it. I'll try to play
around with that.

In any case, I need to get a few of those crystals anyway if I go this
route.

I didn't fully get your method of doing the same without the crystal
and doublers/triplers.

I have cool edit pro and can generate a 120MHz signal on left for
example and 720MHz signal on the right channel. Then I could
cable out the left and right separately into their own 10watt linear
amp then put the amp outputs to the plates.

Would this not be appropriate for this purpose - something like that
have too much interference?

It's the only thing I already have that could do it. I can cut a headphone
cable and scope the two channels to see the waveform. The audio
program can generate square, sine or triangle.

[Slovenia]

Very Interested

A lot of us are very interested in this water splitter of Mike's. When he said that such a water splitter could get up to 10X more hydrogen and oxygen than an electrolyzer, he got our attention. Many of my friends and I have been building cells such as but not limited to the Boyce 101 plate cell, different configurations of Meyer, and many others for about 8 years now. Anyway, Mike, DrStiffler, & Aaron, you have quite a large following here. You have sparked a lot of interest indeed.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@All

I don't want to change Mike's direction at all, but will throw out some additional info about obtaining the frequencies you want.

If you use doubler's, tripler's etc., you can design them so that they are for the most part immune fro non-desired input frequencies by using a combination of input filters (bandpass) and a high Q tank for the output stage. Therefore its a matter of good engineering and the art of RF to reject what might be present that you do not want.

What we do at my lab is use one of my exciters into a SGATE which gives a pretty level output across hundreds of megahertz.

*Side note for that 'PestWicked' fellow that made the remark that I could not substantiate UWB from my Exciters in the Diode Electrolysis Videos, LOOK CLOSELY.

Okay to explain what a SEC Exciter and SGATE can do, here are a few picture from an SA to show what not many of you have seen do to not having the needed equipment.

What I do is adjust the exciter for the spread I desire and bridge off the specific frequency I desire.

I would think this would be much easier than all the oscillator, doubler and triplers, just bandpass and amplify what you want, pic the candy from the selection so to speak.

Dr. Stiffler is making a good point, at the end of the day you only need those two frequencies. I personally do not have the circuit diagrams of 20 years ago and they were designed by one of my associates whom was a brilliant EE, he was also one of the people from my town in Shropshire who worked to bring about SSB.

Tomorrow I hope I will have more time and look for an easier solution for making these frequencies, but the Doc's idea is a sound one and might take some beating.

Mike

[DrStiffler]

That does answer more of what I need to know. I don't know what I don't know but now I know a little more. lol

I have a free spice version but never bothered to use it. I'll try to play
around with that.

In any case, I need to get a few of those crystals anyway if I go this
route.

I didn't fully get your method of doing the same without the crystal
and doublers/triplers.

I have cool edit pro and can generate a 120MHz signal on left for
example and 720MHz signal on the right channel. Then I could
cable out the left and right separately into their own 10watt linear
amp then put the amp outputs to the plates.

Would this not be appropriate for this purpose - something like that
have too much interference?

It's the only thing I already have that could do it. I can cut a headphone
cable and scope the two channels to see the waveform. The audio
program can generate square, sine or triangle.

@Aaron
I will rough out a circuit and post it tonight or tomorrow, but it will not have values. The bias points, supply voltage and filter values all need to be calculated. Most of the information can be obtained from the transistor spec sheets (if) the include transfer curves etc. Any way I'll post a rule of thumbs circuit which can be a starting point.

[Aaron]

thank you!

@Aaron
I will rough out a circuit and post it tonight or tomorrow, but it will not have values. The bias points, supply voltage and filter values all need to be calculated. Most of the information can be obtained from the transistor spec sheets (if) the include transfer curves etc. Any way I'll post a rule of thumbs circuit which can be a starting point.

That would be great!

Myself and most other members are not experienced in these circuits and
it would be very helpful.

@ Slovenia - when the document you're putting together has a bit more
for the average experimenter to start getting their feet wet, like Dr.
Stiffler's basic concept schematic or anything else to get experimenters
off and running, that doc will get to a lot of people. Send a copy to Ash
too to get out and if you or anyone is pretty good at Wiki systems, then
starting a new page on Peswiki on this concept would be a good place
to have this stuff posted as well.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

A lot of us are very interested in this water splitter of Mike's. When he said that such a water splitter could get up to 10X more hydrogen and oxygen than an electrolyzer, he got our attention. Many of my friends and I have been building cells such as but not limited to the Boyce 101 plate cell, different configurations of Meyer, and many others for about 8 years now. Anyway, Mike, DrStiffler, & Aaron, you have quite a large following here. You have sparked a lot of interest indeed.

This work that was done back in the late 80's was never fully completed, we had a working model and it was demonstrated to get further working capital. Two weeks after it was stopped, and that is as far that I will go in public on that story.

What potencial it has can be demonstrated by the results that we had, about 1kw was used and we had 5kw out via an invertor being fed from an alternator which was driven by a turbo jet engine.

Now you can do what you want with the hydrogen and oxygen but for me running a piston engine is not a good idea for reasons I have stressed in other threads, it has to be used with a nitrogen carrier. I have gone off topic a bit here, but it was just to address the X10.

Mike

[DrStiffler]

Thumb Rule Diagram

@All
Okay here is a circuit that would work, but one needs to give it values and that depends on the xtal, the transistors, etc.

I will wave my normal design fee here.....

Edit:
I just ran a simulation and R7 for the power we want will be an inductor and not a resistor, so keep this in mind when doing the follower.

[Aaron]

"replication" attempt

Hey Everyone,

I'll claim the first attempt at 120mhz and 720mhz signals generated on different
channels posted in this thread for the purposes of splitting water.
I didn't say it worked, just the signals in the frequency were produced
and I haven't applied it to anything.

http://www.feelthevibe.com/free_ener...mhz720mhzR.zip

That zip is an audio file I made in very high resolution of 120MHz on the
left channel and 720MHz on the right channel. Through stereo headphone
jacks, I measured it on the scope. I did NOT measure those exactly on
the scope because with such a long cable, etc... I doubt those frequencies
can ever be clean coming from a laptop audio card. If anyone is bored,
check out that sound file.

Hmm, perhaps if I played it on a good quality
audio amplifier with fat cables maybe I can measure those frequencies.
Even the 120Hz and 720Hz didn't come out as pure clean square waves.

And IF I can get a good quality audio signal already amped up that maybe
I could send them directly to antenna plates inside of some water mist
from a humidifier?

I used cool edit pro and first did just 120hz and 720hz just to have a lower
frequency to actually see.





Then I did it with 120MHz and 720MHz:



Obviously at those high of frequencies and with the wiring I'm using, etc...
it'll never show up but that audio file should will those frequencies.
I just made it 10 seconds long and played it on loop. I have a slight
headache from both the higher MHz ones and the lower Hz ones even
though I couldn't even audibly hear the MHz ones, I could sense it
within my brain.

Brain wave entrainment is a form of heterodyning.

If you put 100Hz in the left ear and 107Hz in the right ear for example
with stereo headphones to keep the sound isolated to each ear, the
corpus collosum (traffic director between the hemispheres) will interpret
a "phantom beat" of the DIFFERENCE between the left and right for a
total of 7Hz or a low Theta brainwave state and the entire brain will
synchronize and balance the left and right hemispheres (and audio and
visual centers) (front and back) and in addition to synchronization, it
will also entrain the entire brainwave to that 7Hz (difference of frequencies).

I don't have the equipment to measure if the brain is actually ALSO
able to show a sum of the two for 207Hz for example. Never looked
for it. Unless I can rig up some electrodes to my head with the scope.
That voltage would have to be amplified quite a bit to see.

[Aaron]

thanks Dr. Stiffler!

@All
Okay here is a circuit that would work, but one needs to give it values and that depends on the xtal, the transistors, etc.

I will wave my normal design fee here.....

Thank you - Amazingly fast!

I'll have to redownload the free version of spice and see if I can
experiment with the values. Too many things to learn and not enough time.

[DrStiffler]

Thank you - Amazingly fast!

I'll have to redownload the free version of spice and see if I can
experiment with the values. Too many things to learn and not enough time.

@Aaron & All

Acouple of points on the circuit. The osc is a crystal stabilized, Colpitts in design. One might find one very similar in a ham manual for 2-meters. The coupling caps are variable and the tank coils should be selected to be resonant at the desired double and triple frequencies. Standard formula works here, want a high Q so wire if built should be like #24. The whole circuit should generate at least 2W at the emitter follower for a short end drive to a low power linear.

Bypass, bypass and bypass again to a good ground plain (metal) no wire to wire here or wire wrap. Coils should be positions so that they can have a metal shield between to stop feedback. Look at a few ham manuals or a radio engineers handbook to see some good layout methods.

Good luck and if its still going (the thread) after my load decreases I might build one up just for the heck of it.

[DrStiffler]

RF Bond Breaking in 2005

I can say I believe what Mike is showing you, why, well in 2005 I did it in a different way. It was not very efficient, yet it proved it could be done. Here is one of the pictures of one of the cells, look at the gas bubble size.

[Slovenia]

Thanks

Hi Mike,

Thanks!! I do understand. I realize that there are many things you can not say and we all respect that. Thanks for what you have shared and what you are able to share. You have helped jump start some tired experimenters.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

This work that was done back in the late 80's was never fully completed, we had a working model and it was demonstrated to get further working capital. Two weeks after it was stopped, and that is as far that I will go in public on that story.

What potencial it has can be demonstrated by the results that we had, about 1kw was used and we had 5kw out via an invertor being fed from an alternator which was driven by a turbo jet engine.

Now you can do what you want with the hydrogen and oxygen but for me running a piston engine is not a good idea for reasons I have stressed in other threads, it has to be used with a nitrogen carrier. I have gone off topic a bit here, but it was just to address the X10.

Mike