None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[Aaron]

turbojet engine

about 1kw was used and we had 5kw out via an invertor being fed from an alternator which was driven by a turbo jet engine.

Now everyone knows EXACTLY why I started this thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...bines-diy.html

It is about the easiest engine to run on water - WAY fewer variables
than an ICE. This is probably the best online group dedicated to making
small turbojet engines using a regular turbocharger from a gas or diesel
engine as the main turbine assembly:
DIYGasTurbines : Home-built gas turbine jet engines

You can see high quality and low quality builds. There are low quality
builds using plumbing pipes, etc... DON'T DO THAT.

Make them nice and accurate as you can. IF you don't have a full machine
shop and IF you want to really do it right, it will either cost you a LOT
of money and/or a LOT of time doing it bit by bit. I would recommend
getting at least a lathe and mill. Or perhaps some members that are
master machinists can work something out to do the machining for this
kind of project at an experimenters price.

I have a 9x19 lathe but I'd recommend getting at least a 12x24 or bigger
at MINIMUM. About $2750 delivered.
G4002 12" x 24" Gear-Head, Cam Lock Spindle, Gap Bed Lathe

My mill is pretty good but wish I could raise the bit a few more inches.
I'd get this: G0484 9" x 32" Gear-Head Mill / Drill with Stand at minimum. About $2300 delivered.

Don't let the $ be an issue or any kind of barrier. If you don't have the funds to get your
own equipment, just know that you can find a way to make one - it is possible to do one on
the cheap.

Anyway, go check out youtube:
YouTube - turbojet engine

You can see all the homemade ones made from regular turbochargers.

If you want to post about the turbojet engine stuff, please use the
turbojet thread instead of this water splitting thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...bines-diy.html

If you're new to it, just get your head wrapped around the mechanics
of it. It is VERY simple. But is a pain to build if you don't have all the
right tools in order to do it justice in any short amount of time.

Anyway, check out all that stuff and let the wheels start turning.

[Slovenia]

Thanks

Thanks Aaron. We'll make sure the word gets out on this material.

@ Slovenia - when the document you're putting together has a bit more
for the average experimenter to start getting their feet wet, like Dr.
Stiffler's basic concept schematic or anything else to get experimenters
off and running, that doc will get to a lot of people. Send a copy to Ash
too to get out and if you or anyone is pretty good at Wiki systems, then
starting a new page on Peswiki on this concept would be a good place
to have this stuff posted as well.

[ashtweth]

AQUAFUEL INC

May be a resonance drive, no KOH there ...

[Duncan]

I know that Idle speculation isn’t appreciated and quite right too! But it’s a riveting thread and I really can’t help a little conjecture, And I’d like to think if I drift way off line someone with more Math’s than I will be quick to correct me.
And anyway perhaps my musing may help others who are not particularly skilled in RF (like me) to get a grip of what’s happening.
Also There is a bit of friendly debate betwixt the good Dr and Lamare which is good isn’t it? Anyway I’m going to have a guess at what’s happening here because I think regardless of how you view it. A few laws are being bent a bit out of shape here.
And as soon as “The math’s and science” catch up it’s the end of the game.
Mike and the Dr have given us very clear directions but they are obviously skilled RF engineers.
We basically want Two HF perfect (clean) Sine waves locked to each other and separated by a frequency factor of 6. Mike used 120 MHz and 720 MHz. (I think my effort might be 4 + 24 MHz)
Its actually quite difficult for electrical guys to get their head around RF remember its radio it’s not captive in the wire it wants to fly! You have to basically tease and tempt it from one stage to the next. Whilst nurturing your sine wave. It’s a frustrating business in my experience amplifiers want to oscillate and oscillators want to amplify.
My frequency generator is quite capable and stable enough to supply a nice 120Mhz sine wave and I might try and incorporate that and its external trigger for one half of the equation” I’m having a scratch about for nice stable HF generator circuits and so whilst I’m writing now and again I will put a link in to something I think may possibly be adaptable A Signal Generator
HF/VHF/UHF Bandswitched Test Oscillator OK this fourier analysis HF/VHF/UHF Bandswitched Test Oscillator it drove me up the wall 30 years ago, Makes me rattle looking at it now. But it’s “key” to what’s proposed here It applies to sine waves mixing In the way we have been told F1, F2 F1+F2 F1-F2 That’s how I was taught it, I’m a spark’s and not a RF engineer so my language may not be PC to radio guys (excuse me Doc and Mike) But basically we are going to hurl these very high freq sine waves at each other almost like a cleverly engineered car smash if you will.
With those frequencies calculated to heterodyne elegantly done!
Now the bit that bothered me all those years ago and it actually involved a large bakery with equipment that was blowing up for no apparent reason, a recording spectrum analyzer revealed nothing although I could detect a slight unbalance on the main transformer star point there was nothing to explain the devastation going on around me random Transients of some sort but I could not detect them. I did what is always done and threw lots of power factor correction at the problem (capacitance) but I was the electrician I’m supposed to know and be able to demonstrate and detect the problem.
RF is far from Electrical engineering. And the subject is taught very differently but never the less I was sure I was looking at a harmonic problem, and so I was looking at mixing frequencies.
And I’ve distrusted Fouriers analysis or at least the little bit I understood ever since. Its not that It doesn’t work of course it does, but I’ve always had it at the back of my mind that there’s a chunk missing. Where have all the odd harmonics gone? After you’ve smashed these waves together. Why is there no algebraic negative content? That’s why Doc, I was prepared to muse over the yargi and the resonance thing it’s not an area I am at ease with the explanation of, perhaps because I’m a tad to thick hey?
Anyway I watched a clip of Eric Dollard the other day explaining that tuning a “longitudinal wave” was the reverse of tuning an EM wave as far as SWR was concerned and I’m prepared to entertain the idea that at the instant these waves collide in water there is a longitudinal wave at work. After all the Sine wave is supposed to be the composite of every possible (acknowledged) wave isn’t it?
It’s a bit of a leap into the dark but it would make a few bits start to fit together don’t you think? Of course to prove it is another thing entirely just a feeling I have.VHF/UHF signal generator We at least now know without doubt there is a longitudinal wave, where Its been hidden in the sums we don't know ... yet.
Good luck with this all, and Thanks Mike


.
.

[DrStiffler]

I know that Idle speculation isn’t appreciated and quite right too! But it’s a riveting thread and I really can’t help a little conjecture, And I’d like to think if I drift way off line someone with more Math’s than I will be quick to correct me.
And anyway perhaps my musing may help others who are not particularly skilled in RF (like me) to get a grip of what’s happening.
Also There is a bit of friendly debate betwixt the good Dr and Lamare which is good isn’t it? Anyway I’m going to have a guess at what’s happening here because I think regardless of how you view it. A few laws are being bent a bit out of shape here.
And as soon as “The math’s and science” catch up it’s the end of the game.
Mike and the Dr have given us very clear directions but they are obviously skilled RF engineers.
We basically want Two HF perfect (clean) Sine waves locked to each other and separated by a frequency factor of 6. Mike used 120 MHz and 720 MHz. (I think my effort might be 4 + 24 MHz)
Its actually quite difficult for electrical guys to get their head around RF remember its radio it’s not captive in the wire it wants to fly! You have to basically tease and tempt it from one stage to the next. Whilst nurturing your sine wave. It’s a frustrating business in my experience amplifiers want to oscillate and oscillators want to amplify.
My frequency generator is quite capable and stable enough to supply a nice 120Mhz sine wave and I might try and incorporate that and its external trigger for one half of the equation” I’m having a scratch about for nice stable HF generator circuits and so whilst I’m writing now and again I will put a link in to something I think may possibly be adaptable A Signal Generator
HF/VHF/UHF Bandswitched Test Oscillator OK this fourier analysis HF/VHF/UHF Bandswitched Test Oscillator it drove me up the wall 30 years ago, Makes me rattle looking at it now. But it’s “key” to what’s proposed here It applies to sine waves mixing In the way we have been told F1, F2 F1+F2 F1-F2 That’s how I was taught it, I’m a spark’s and not a RF engineer so my language may not be PC to radio guys (excuse me Doc and Mike) But basically we are going to hurl these very high freq sine waves at each other almost like a cleverly engineered car smash if you will.
With those frequencies calculated to heterodyne elegantly done!
Now the bit that bothered me all those years ago and it actually involved a large bakery with equipment that was blowing up for no apparent reason, a recording spectrum analyzer revealed nothing although I could detect a slight unbalance on the main transformer star point there was nothing to explain the devastation going on around me random Transients of some sort but I could not detect them. I did what is always done and threw lots of power factor correction at the problem (capacitance) but I was the electrician I’m supposed to know and be able to demonstrate and detect the problem.
RF is far from Electrical engineering. And the subject is taught very differently but never the less I was sure I was looking at a harmonic problem, and so I was looking at mixing frequencies.
And I’ve distrusted Fouriers analysis or at least the little bit I understood ever since. Its not that It doesn’t work of course it does, but I’ve always had it at the back of my mind that there’s a chunk missing. Where have all the odd harmonics gone? After you’ve smashed these waves together. Why is there no algebraic negative content? That’s why Doc, I was prepared to muse over the yargi and the resonance thing it’s not an area I am at ease with the explanation of, perhaps because I’m a tad to thick hey?
Anyway I watched a clip of Eric Dollard the other day explaining that tuning a “longitudinal wave” was the reverse of tuning an EM wave as far as SWR was concerned and I’m prepared to entertain the idea that at the instant these waves collide in water there is a longitudinal wave at work. After all the Sine wave is supposed to be the composite of every possible (acknowledged) wave isn’t it?
It’s a bit of a leap into the dark but it would make a few bits start to fit together don’t you think? Of course to prove it is another thing entirely just a feeling I have.VHF/UHF signal generator We at least now know without doubt there is a longitudinal wave, where Its been hidden in the sums we don't know ... yet.
Good luck with this all, and Thanks Mike


.
.

@Duncan
I don't want to get into Mike's way here, so I will hint at something from the way I see L waves or scalar whatever we or they call them and can not cover it in depth here as the math is indeed a bit heavy and does not agree with today's science.

*First I am not at odds with larmare, I hope I'm wrong, but his credibility may be at stake here, unless his math is very convincing. I rather feel he is going at this in a far to conventional way IMHO.

Now for the L wave issue. Do you believe in virtual particles? A particle just appearing where none has existed prior?

I think Dr. Koontz Web Site of Dr. Robert W. Koontz* www.DoctorKoontz.com explains this in a very clear and though provoking way. He asks the question; 'If you have two photons in a box and each has an energy level of 1, but they are 180' out of phase, where has the energy gone?' This is a contradiction of the conservation of energy?

I do not really understand what we call scalar, it is a wild and weird thing to work with and does have its hazards as well as its advantages, although it is like the double slit experiment that are always thrown at us but can not be explained in a way the mind can image it. L waves have a habit (my work and my observations) of disappearing and reappearing someplace else and displaying the same energy without regard for what should be a degradation.

Sometimes they can be quite powerful and cause strange actions in a medium and then the next time display no affect at all. I still to this day have not picked out the finite factor that makes this difference.

Now for Mike's work, it can be viewed in a few ways and does not explain in a simple way unless you maybe look at SEC and understand what I do when I say I vibrate the medium (energy lattice), he may indeed be doing similar or I may be doing what he has taking place.

One needs to work with 180' phase shifted signal to understand what I just said here. Big problem is seeing the L wave (detectors) in a way that can be explored, then when they pass thru that door and appear someplace else it really gets hard to follow.

[Duncan]

sometimes they can be quite powerful and cause strange actions in a medium and then the next time display no affect at all. I still to this day have not picked out the finite factor that makes this difference.
Exactly what I was watching all those years ago!.. Take me a while to digest Now .. Thanks Doc

[Michael John Nunnerley]

I can say I believe what Mike is showing you, why, well in 2005 I did it in a different way. It was not very efficient, yet it proved it could be done. Here is one of the pictures of one of the cells, look at the gas bubble size.

I would be very interested to know what frequency, frequencies or band width you were using. As you know VLF will pass through water as though it is not there and micro wave is fully absorbed by water. There is I think a band that is optimal, that was where my research was going to go so as to build a simplified RF source. For the last 12 months I have been also looking into electron beam iradiation and have had success but difficult to build and control using high vacuum and voltage.

If you do not want to say here please PM me.

Mike

[nvisser]

Cheap Uhf modules

Looks like there is not much we can do till we get a properly designed vhf/uhf frequency generator board
So I wonder if it will be possible to use some of this realy cheap 400mhz remote control units. They come with adjustable capacitors or saw resonators. Maybe it will be easy to modify them to the higher and lower needed frequencies of 120Mhz and 720Mhz.
If possible it should not be difficult to amplify it with a pre amp and amp as they are cheaply available on ebay
Just go search for uhf modules.
SAW Resonators
They mention that you get saw resonators from 50Mhz up to 2Ghz
Here is a site with some info on this type of transmitters.
http://www.epcos.com/web/generator/W...f;/PDF_AN1.pdf

[Von]

If we want to replicate this process , where do we start?
Will we use something like a AM double side band transmitter, which I think is heterodyning?
Mike suggested VHF and UHF which is in the megahertz range. TV is AM modulation.
He talks about 10W , which is not a huge transmitter.
He used the example of 100khz and 300khz which is more in the medium frequency range, but it was probably only to explain the principle.
Once we know for sure what freq. to use we could google some AM double sideband transmitter circuits. I have got old radio engineering books that I never really understood. I could have a look in there.
Then also find some wavelength formulas and work out the quarter wave lengths to get the tube lengths.
Any thoughts and ideas on this?
This was the very first explanation I found on google
SPECTRUM ANALYSIS

Let me indroduce something here as a cautionary statement, that some of you may or may not be aware of. I have not read the whole tread yet, so it may have been mentioned somewhere else.

When working witht these high frequencies, be aware that they can be very unhealty if absorbed in your body/brain. So please be cautious with the power level and make sure your experiment is shielded from your person.

It may also be wise to have a field strenght indicator next to you, to give you warning that rf is eminating from your experiment.

Von

[Duncan]

Mini-Circuits RF/IF Designer's Guide and UHF oscillator using Mini-Circuits' POS-400+ chip for consideration

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Mini-Circuits RF/IF Designer's Guide and UHF oscillator using Mini-Circuits' POS-400+ chip for consideration

Nice find Duncan

Mike

[DrStiffler]

Mini-Circuits RF/IF Designer's Guide and UHF oscillator using Mini-Circuits' POS-400+ chip for consideration

@Duncan
This is the way I thought everyone should go and not ask for circuits to build as everyone would build it different and each build would have its own problems. Strangely enough, many say they can not afford to buy something that will work, yet they will spend far more than this cost trying to get their own version working.

Good Post......

[nvisser]

It seems like saw resonators are not the preferred choice. I also cannot find ones that has frequencies 6x exactly apart and they need to be used with a resonant circuit. They are dirt cheap though
It looks like the voltage controlled oscillators will be much easier.
K-POS 2+ kit consist of 7 kits which include POS200+ and POS765+ which will be the correct voltage controlled oscillators to use. Then we can use 100 and 600Mhz.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

It seems like saw resonators are not the preferred choice. I also cannot find ones that has frequencies 6x exactly apart and they need to be used with a resonant circuit. They are dirt cheap though
It looks like the voltage controlled oscillators will be much easier.
K-POS 2+ kit consist of 7 kits which include POS200+ and POS765+ which will be the correct voltage controlled oscillators to use. Then we can use 100 and 600Mhz.

No problem on frequency, keep it a 6X spacing and in the VHF and UHF bands, or HF VHF bands possibly!

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

The ZX95-200-S+ and ZX95-625A will give you the two frequencies you need and the bonus is they are variable through a wide range, total cost 87.90usd.

I will post a couple of linear amp circuits which will do for the power output, these are not so difficult to make if you follow RF construction methods, but to buy are quite expensive at UHF.

An IRF 840 can be used at VHF on its own but for UHF it may have to be staged if I can't find a power RF transistor big enough to work at that frequency.

Mike