Japanese company lays claim to world's cheapest hydrogen production process

[kippered]

Japanese company lays claim to world's cheapest hydrogen production process

Sounds like after they create "Functional Water" They just hit it with brute force electrolysis... I wonder if there is an opportunity for the HHO crowd to either use resonant disassociation or dielectric breakdown concepts with this and make it even better.

[jibbguy]

Yes this "functional water" sounds very interesting (and mysterious lol)... They are probably not talking about something as simple as an electrolyte, as it clearly states tap water is run through this compound of minerals, then used (like a water treatment filter of some kind).

If it is true that this secret combination of minerals weakens the bonds, then it would possibly help improve Efficiency with ANY method we discuss here for the disassociation of water.

But they are not just doing "brute force DC", they are also using a Catalyst (either aluminum or magnesium); besides whatever minerals are in the water to begin with.

In that way it sounds somewhat similar to Dr. Daniel Nocera's system which uses electrolysis with electrodes made of a "boron-nickle" catalyst material.

The website for "Fukai Environmental Laboratory, Ltd." is not very enlightening either i am afraid

Another frustrating end of the line for research due to "proprietary secrets".... Their secrets won't help them get it to market (and it WON'T make it as long as they are secretive and easy to suppress), but having 100 million people around the planet know about it.... will.

This is one of several announcements in the last 3 years for systems using a Catalyst to produce large amounts of H efficiently... There must be something to it, perhaps lol?

Genepex (who's site shows clearly, imo, that they were suppressed), that guy in Australia with the motorcycle (who it appears was "got to" and was forced to change over to a simple & comparatively worthless booster), Daniel Nocera of M.I.T., and others. Plus there were several others from years past who made large claims regarding it.

水�*エネルギー｜水�*燃料でCO2排出� ��*

[Aaron]

anti oxidant water filter systems

Sounds like the water is run through an "anti-oxidant" water filter, that
would negatively charge it and make it alkaline - that is usually for drinking.

The same units usually have a setting to make positively charged acidic
water, which is usually intended for external use or for cleaning.

There are usually some mineral cartridges that the water goes through to
infuse more minerals into the water - usually calcium based.

The water is considered functional and is practically recognized as a medicine
for its free radical scavenging abilities if using the alkaline setting.

To weaken the bonds, I'd imagine the acidic water setting is making water
that has very weak bonds compared to high electron content (anti-oxidant).

Many companies have these filters if that is what they are using. Nikken
a big MLM company has a couple water products including one that swirls
the water - claimed vortex but not a real one - and a mineral cartridge is
inserted into the container to swirl the water through the minerals. The
Japanese are very deep into functional water systems for health and
healing.

Kangen Water, Kangen Water Machine, Kangen Water System (one of the best and most spendy)

JupiterIonizer.com - Jupiter Antioxidant Water Ionizers (lower price Korean one - been around
long time)

There are others - the Jupiter used to have a acid water setting but
not sure about Kangen water systems. This is still just a guess as to
what process their functional water goes through.

[iquant]

Guessing this "Functional Water" contains Sodium Hydroxide...
Contact with metals such as aluminum, magnesium, tin, and zinc cause formation of flammable hydrogen gas. No electrolysis just a chemical reaction.

According to their claims:
1 gm of aluminum produces 2l of hydrogen
1 gm of magnesium produces 3.2l

YouTube - Aluminium and Sodium hydroxide

[SeaMonkey]

Guessing this "Functional Water" contains Sodium Hydroxide...
Contact with metals such as aluminum, magnesium, tin, and zinc cause formation of flammable hydrogen gas. No electrolysis just a chemical reaction.

According to their claims:
1 gm of aluminum produces 2l of hydrogen
1 gm of magnesium produces 3.2l

YouTube - Aluminium and Sodium hydroxide

Excellent analysis.

You have correctly described the process.

[totoalas]

Functional Water for HHO

Hi to all
In my early experiments with HhO
Used up 4 used up rechargeable nimh compound or chemicals inside the battery
plus 4 x 10 inches aluminum plate and wella filled my 4 x 4 feet roo with hho gas need to work on open area or wil suffocate !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ive read some articles abou the alumnum bath batteries using sea water
in ships. they just replenished the depleted cells

This combination installed in the hottest part of the engine will do the same application as the japanese designs do.....
Please review Daniel Dingel water engine and look into the fuel injection system
Also @ 5 volts 5 amperes 316 steel mesh 1 cm x 1 cm wrapped round microwave oven magnets 2 in dia 8 pcs stacked together and a center bolt 12 mm high hho production
Hope to combine with Status of Replication Guide | Future Energy Groups
and geet / hho so maybe one of you can come with a simple design
cheers
totoalas

[Aaron]

what makes functional water

Excellent analysis.

You have correctly described the process.

I think so too but it does not answer what the functional water is.
They aren't going to run water through a medium to pick up sodium
hydroxide, it is added later, so what process makes water "functional"?

There have been many experiments over the years with aluminum for example
in sodium hydroxide. What makes this any different or more efficient
because using metals in lye is not anything new?

[iquant]

Cut-n-paste From: Re: What are the products of Aluminum + Sodium Hydroxide?

What are the products of Aluminum + Sodium Hydroxide?


It's simple. As you have written it there is clearly only
ONE possibility for a gas: Hydrogen, H2, because the
other gas, oxygen O2, is generally much much stronger
attached to metals than is Hydrogen. So, the equation
is simple:
Al + 3 NaOH -> Al (ONa)3 + 1.5 H2 which is the same as
2 Al + 6 NaOH --> 2 Na3AlO3 + 3 H2

Now, let's make it complicated and put on a show:
"mixing Aluminum and NaOH" implies a few different scenarios:.

a) if you mix NaOH granules and Al chips nothing happens
unless you heat and melt'em to around 800�F. Then a very
dangerous/explosive reaction occurs in accord with the above
equation.

b) if you mix NaOH granules and Al chips nothing happens
if you leave the mix dry and at room temperature. Indeed
you get something like "Drano" that you buy in the store.

c) if you mix NaOH granules and Al chips nothing happens
until you add water, (in your case) in form of aqueous NaOH
which gives you the following reactions, and ALWAYS ONLY
Hydrogen as the gas:

Al + NaOH + H2O ---> O=Al-O-Na + 1.5 H2 which the same as
2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H2O --> 2 NaAlO2 A+ 3 H2

d) if you add an excess & high conc. of NaOH then the NaAlO2
will dissolve into NaAlO2 + NaOH --> HO-Al<(O-Na)2 and
if there is even more NaOH present then the HO-Al<(O-Na)2
will dissolve into HO-Al<(O-Na)2 + NaOH --> Na3AlO3 + H2O.
All these NaAlOxides are called Sodium Aluminates.

e) So, throwing Al chips into a big excess of aqueous NaOH
gives you: Al + 3 NaOH --> Na3AlO3 + 1.5 H2 or which is the
same as 2 Al + 6 NaOH --> 2 Na3AlO3 + 3 H2

The reason why the water is necessary, although it is not
consumed by the reaction, is that it provides the mobility
of the atoms and molecules in the reaction equations to
move around.

The reason why nothing happens when "mixing Aluminum
and NaOH"-granules, dry, and at room temperature is because
there is limited contact between the two, and to boot, the
Aluminum is naturally protected by a very thin, very dense layer
of Al2O3, called Boehmite which protects the underlying metal.
This layer is so effective in protecting the Aluminum body that
it is artificially created and produced on a vast industrial scale,
called "Anodizing"
**************