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**Jetijs** · 10-23-2010, 11:14 PM

Hi,
I have much experience in the hho field and will be happy to help. But it is already 2:00AM here and I am tired, will write more tomorrow. But the short answer is that using the HHO flame for heating without any exotic catalysts and other fancy stuff is not efficient at all, any water boiler or electric heater will be more efficient and cheaper. That is not only my experience, my colleagues report the same. More about that tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jetijs

**ashtweth** · 10-24-2010, 01:42 AM

Okay can we check the efficiencies with these sites products maybe?
Maybe email asking for third party...
Oxy-Hydrogen Generator, Solar Heater Manufacturer - Epoch Energy Technology Corp.
YouTube - Part 1 of 6 HHO Gas Radiant Heating 2010.

This one looks interesting, they have plans for sale.
YouTube - HHO Home Heating Unit
Using as little as 330 watts, the Genesis I heats 1500 square feet easily.
Check their channel
YouTube - hhohhu's Channel

Ash

**ashtweth** · 10-24-2010, 02:09 AM

Hang on guys, i think you can make a dry cell gas splitter with a hydrogen FLAME for cooking? at 96% Faraday, Bill Williams i did that and its open source my friends.

YouTube - 8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp
His plans are on the Panacea university in the hydroxy course my friends. Special credits to Bill and bob Boyce.

Ash

**Jetijs** · 10-24-2010, 11:33 AM

Eugen, I used my several of my cells to test the possible heating solutions using hho. This is the big guy operating from 220AC straight from the wall:

It is very efficient and does not heat up when operating even at 3kW power consumptiont. Higher operating voltages means less current for the same power and the current is the one thing responsible for losses in heat. I also used my smaller cell for the same tests which operates at 30V 20A and is less efficient:

The test setup was a copper container containing a liter of water. It was insulated all around except a small part which was left uninsulated so that I could heat that part using a hho torch. I tried different distances from the flame to the heating surface as the temperature varies considerably depending on the distance, but that did not give any better results. A cofee machine could heat the same amount of water faster and using less electricity.

Heating water directly with the hho flame is also not efficient at all. The water heats up slowly and the interesting part is that you can not heat it up more than about 60 degrees using this method. Also if you take boiling water and try to keep it boil by using a hho flame frirectly on water, it just helps it cool to 60 degrees faster. I believe this is beacues the hho flame has both explosive and implosive properties where one action emmits heat and other coldess and there is a sweetspot at aout 60 degrees.

I have not tried using a secondary bubbler with small amount of alcohol in it. This should lower the hho flame temperature and increase the output gas volume. This might give greater heat. But on the other hand, even if this method will be 100% effective, I doubt people would consider in muying such a product because it is messy with all the alcohol, electrolytes and other stuff and a simple electric heater at the same efficiency is less expensive and makes less trouble. However the efficiency of a hho heater using alcohol in secondary bubbler should be tested, might just be the thing we need

Also have you ever wondered why there are may companies selling hho boosters for cars, hho torches in different scales even hho flame cookers, but not one company sells a hho heater? Guess that this is because they have tried that and failed to get good enough results so that a product can be made, just like I and many others did.
Hope this helps,
Jetijs

**Michael John Nunnerley** · 10-24-2010, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Jetijs View Post

Eugen, I used my several of my cells to test the possible heating solutions using hho. This is the big guy operating from 220AC straight from the wall:

It is very efficient and does not heat up when operating even at 3kW power consumptiont. Higher operating voltages means less current for the same power and the current is the one thing responsible for losses in heat. I also used my smaller cell for the same tests which operates at 30V 20A and is less efficient:

The test setup was a copper container containing a liter of water. It was insulated all around except a small part which was left uninsulated so that I could heat that part using a hho torch. I tried different distances from the flame to the heating surface as the temperature varies considerably depending on the distance, but that did not give any better results. A cofee machine could heat the same amount of water faster and using less electricity.

Heating water directly with the hho flame is also not efficient at all. The water heats up slowly and the interesting part is that you can not heat it up more than about 60 degrees using this method. Also if you take boiling water and try to keep it boil by using a hho flame frirectly on water, it just helps it cool to 60 degrees faster. I believe this is beacues the hho flame has both explosive and implosive properties where one action emmits heat and other coldess and there is a sweetspot at aout 60 degrees.

I have not tried using a secondary bubbler with small amount of alcohol in it. This should lower the hho flame temperature and increase the output gas volume. This might give greater heat. But on the other hand, even if this method will be 100% effective, I doubt people would consider in muying such a product because it is messy with all the alcohol, electrolytes and other stuff and a simple electric heater at the same efficiency is less expensive and makes less trouble. However the efficiency of a hho heater using alcohol in secondary bubbler should be tested, might just be the thing we need

Also have you ever wondered why there are may companies selling hho boosters for cars, hho torches in different scales even hho flame cookers, but not one company sells a hho heater? Guess that this is because they have tried that and failed to get good enough results so that a product can be made, just like I and many others did.
Hope this helps,
Jetijs

Jetijs I take my hat off to you for your engineering skills.

If I can explain something in general terms, HHO is a direct product of water, 100%, when you burn this it implodes to form water again, implosion has a cooling effect and not a heating effect, if you want a heating effect you HAVE TO CHANGE THE MAKEUP, add nitrogen and it will heat and not cool, but you have to add this at the convertion of the water to HHO while it is in its atomic state, not after. This is not easy to do but is possible, with these elecrolysers it is not possible, you have to use a totlly different system.

Mike

**nvisser** · 10-24-2010, 07:32 PM

John. This make sense. This is what I extracted from what Les Banki wrote on the Waterfuelforall forum. He is the guy that designed the electronic waste spark remover and timing adjuster that I also build and tested.
http://www.ionizationx.com/waterfuel...php?topic=6.15
See Reply20
Quote:
"Oh, one more thing?.this will stir the hell out of everybody?.!
A couple of days ago a friend (also a Hydroxy researcher) phoned and we talked about many things. When talking about my ignition circuit, I mentioned that I intended to set the adjustment range from about 5 deg ATDC to around 25 deg ATDC, he had the following comment:
You are not going to believe this but the correct setting, the sweet spot (BEST running), seems to be about 27 deg BTDC. I know it goes against all theories but so be it.
What COULD be happening is that the Hydroxy first IMPLODES, (which creates vacuum and pulling up the piston) and then EXPLODES, pushing down the piston!

Well, I know there will be some who will argue about the implosion/explosion idea but let me remind everyone that Yull Brown even had a Patent on creating vacuum with imploding ?Brown?s Gas?. It is real.
Let me add that if a sealed container, containing ONLY Hydroxy (Brown?s Gas) is ignited, the result is a mild POP, almost perfect vacuum and a tiny amount of water!"

**adam_mizer** · 10-24-2010, 11:40 PM

Nvisser you are also making good sense and only testing of the theory will show a result.
But every motor is different and something that may be of interest is the camshaft lobes in many cases are overlapping meaning both valves in many cams are open for some degree's of timing at the same moment.

From this I can say to the person interested in making the most efficient functioning motor that some issues of camshaft overlap be taken into consideration. Also there are many after market camshafts available with possibly the proper grind and in this case I am thinking if you use implosion there should be no valve overlap in order to take advantage of it.

Also there is a guy in Idaho that has made a home heater that appears pretty good. Don't know the link, but he uses tubes in his model.

**tutanka** · 11-22-2011, 04:47 PM

hho is just an catalyst gas

HHO is just an catalyst gas. Simply mixing hho (reactive gas) with nitrogen and send that mixture inside two specified UV fields (that interact togheter similarry RF heterodyne of Mike) you obtain NH3/N2O.

**Wireguy** · 11-22-2011, 05:39 PM

What in your view is a more efficient/simple method of NH3 creation - HH0 method or water mist/HV method. I would think that with proper gas mixing control the water mist/HV method would be the preferred method. You seem to have done it by both methods - what do you see as the problems/benefits of both methods?

Best regards, Wireguy

**Wireguy** · 11-22-2011, 06:30 PM

UV field differences

Also interested in the two different UV fields - What is different about the wavelengths? I assume one is a std germicidal bulb type wavelength around 254nm. How is the other different?

Best regards, Wireguy

**Guruji** · 11-22-2011, 07:53 PM

HHO heater

Maybe the setup should be done correctly for hho heating.
See this hho heater of this guy:
Hydrogen Hydroxy HHO Heat Exchanger from HHOG Labs for Home Heater - YouTube

**tutanka** · 11-22-2011, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Wireguy View Post

What in your view is a more efficient/simple method of NH3 creation - HH0 method or water mist/HV method. I would think that with proper gas mixing control the water mist/HV method would be the preferred method. You seem to have done it by both methods - what do you see as the problems/benefits of both methods?

Best regards, Wireguy

HHO method because you have water in gas form

**tutanka** · 11-22-2011, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Wireguy View Post

Also interested in the two different UV fields - What is different about the wavelengths? I assume one is a std germicidal bulb type wavelength around 254nm. How is the other different?

Best regards, Wireguy

You need two UV fields, one charge mixture of HHO/nitrogen the other split hho molecules

**Wireguy** · 11-23-2011, 03:17 PM

Water energizer stage

Tutanka,
Thanks for the great information.

How important is the water energizer stage prior to the HHO cell?

Are there any additives (salt) needed in the distilled water with this system?

Best regards, Wireguy

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