rev cecil hydrogen engine

[james west]

hi all,
i wonder if anyone can spread a little light for me?
i researched the history of Rev Cecil and his hydrogen (vacuum) engine,1820. He pioneered this engine 30 years before Samuel Brown and his "Browns gas" and it seams that he used hydrogen plus atmospheric air to combust. From the details i can find it does not imply he was using HHO as the fuel but H2. My question is what method would he be using to create H2 ? steam over Iron maybe...?
The Hydrogen Engine
rev cecils article:
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffic...ecil/cecil.pdf

he compares the versatility of his engine compared with a steam engine and states that his engine can run in confined spaces, anywhere that has a hydrogen supply for lighting. I know they produced wood gas, coal gas and gas from oil for lighting, but again a handy supply of hydrogen. by what means?

intrigued....
James.

[james west]

just worked out his H2 needs:
engine was 30 cubic inch capacity and worked at 60rpm, his total hydrogen need, including igniton flame = 17.6 cubic feet / hour,
or,
8.3lt/min.
a fare amount then !

br, james.

[kcarring]

Seperative Electrolyser

You can build a separative electrolyser, that is, a brute force electrolyser employing a means to seperate the H2 from O2. I am currently figuring out how to convert mine from HHO to just H2. In basic terms, it involves having a membrane between your cell plates and ports for each gas.

This particular method that I speak of is the premise of this companies design and utilizes silk screen mesh to get the job done:

YouTube - Hydrogen Oxygen Separation Test #4

They offer some units for sale, small ones.

Keep in mind if an HHO unit produces 2.5lpm production your H2 production will roughly estimated to be less, because your not accumulating your O2.

H2 is much easier to manage and deal with than HHO. In the end, it's more useful. HHO is probably more explosive, but it cannot be pressurized for storage, whereas H2 can (quite low pressure if your doing it home!) and it can be stored as a hydride, as well.

Larger more professional units can be purchased (at far greater sums) that are designed specifically to do the job, and then supply a PEM cell for turning that hydrogen back into electricity when needed.

There are many other discussions. Many other "designs and machines" but those are the ones I am familiar with and they are straight up, brute force, underunity designs that don't perform any miraculous, but do, indeed WORK.

Cheers

[james west]

@ kcarring

What a great little cell and a well presented video. I shall take note that a silk membrane is able to separate the evolving gases.

Hydrogen time line
Timeline of hydrogen technologies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is interesting to note that in the 1900’s the choice of method taken for producing large quantities of hydrogen, needed for zeppelins, was not electrolysis but the Lane process.

br, james

[rickoff]

just worked out his H2 needs:
engine was 30 cubic inch capacity and worked at 60rpm, his total hydrogen need, including igniton flame = 17.6 cubic feet / hour,
or, 8.3lt/min.

Please explain and show the math you utilized in drawing this conclusion.

Rick

[james west]

@rickoff
The Rev Cecil provided all the data in his own article. The copy of which I posted the link to:
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffic...ecil/cecil.pdf
I only converted his 17.6 cubic feet / hour, to 8.3lt/min.
It is interesting that he also details the pressure achieved by the explosion, and expansion of 3 X volumes, then his power stroke being the partial vacuum of –6 X volumes.
br, james

[james west]

link not working

sory that link didn't copy / paste properly
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffic...ecil/cecil.pdf

p.s. click on page to download article
br, james