Discussion. Best way to use heat from HHO to generate electricity

[Slovenia]

Questions I have about Configuration of Cell

Questions I have about Configuration of Cell


Power1 has made it clear that certain requirements much be met with regard to his water injection cell.

#1) A certain design criteria must be followed with regard to the atomizing chamber, (i.e.: It's shape & material).

#2) He has also told us that we need a collector and that it must also meet certain design criteria with regard to shape and material.

It is my feeling that the collector may in fact be the device that is coated with the zinc crystals but I'm still working with that.

#3) A crystal oscillator was mentioned, so we probably need to use one of those.

#4) We need to find a suitable water proof adhesive to glue our zinc crystals to whatever structure they need to be adhered to.

The receiver geometry is bowl shaped!!


Recap:
Our cell will have an acoustical horn in conjunction with a collector.

It makes sense that the acoustical horn will be aimed at the collector. It also makes sense that the transducer is in the chamber of the acoustical horn.

I was brainstorming about the configuration of Power1's cell diagram. I wondered why he had the bowls placed on the ceiling of the cell. Well, I think I figured it out. My thought is that the bowls are the collectors. They collect the waves from the acoustical horn. These bowls must therefore be coated with the zinc crystals on the inside.

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU(Post #179)

What Did We Learn From Power To Be's Question of March 18?

#1) We probably need to use a crystal oscillator.

#2) The atomizing chamber needs to be built to a certain design criterion for achieving optimum results.

#3) It would be advisable to use an acoustical horn in conjunction with the transducers with the transducer in the chamber of the horn.

#4) The acoustical horn should be made of brass.

#5) We need to adhere the zinc crystals to some sort of structure within the cell. Flexible or rigid makes no difference.

#6) We need a collector to harvest our ultrasonic waves and it needs to be a certain configuration. There's a special geometry required for optimally harvesting ultrasonic waves. So, we need to utilize that optimum shape, geometry, for harvesting our ultrasonic waves if we are going for optimum results.

[Slovenia]

Power1 Questions from OU (Posed March 18, 2011)

Well folks,

Yesterday Power1 posed, I think, some very significant questions to me with regard to his water injection device. I feel we need to pool our resources and answer these questions as a group so that he will continue to give us hints like this about how an optimum system should be designed. Anyway, here are the questions he asked again and his support information.

Power1 Questions:

Slovenia,
Crystal oscillator circuits are old and easy to build.

You are working with ultrasonic waves here. Musical instruments will give fine examples.

1.) What material and geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?

Use that for your atomizing chamber.

2.) How do you adhere crystals to other surfaces?

There are many different ways. Choose what is best for you. Other researchers used flexible materials but I use solid. It doesn't matter, what ever way that is practical for you.

3.) How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?

Your answer is widely available. Forget wikipedia and these forums, look elsewhere. What did the other inventors use? Check out patents, old books, etc.

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (Post #172)

Romo
What you believe becomes your own Reality. Is something hapening, Yes/No, It does not matter. Fear is only a mind game, believe and you will become the victim. Is something happening to Earth, Yes there is. But do not Fear as you will be lost and confused. Demand proof, do not believe. Turn off your TV, forget about the News etc, Don't fall victim to the hoax and prank being played today, use your own intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------
RAD
I must say that I only use simple things from 19th century era, works just fine, I had tuned my chamber with a balloon. If you are measuring water at 1.7mhz, then you should have lots of HHO already!.

You don't need to buy digikey circuit, you can make it. Or if you want to buy ready made, look at Alibaba, they have the same exact thing for fraction $, or better go taobao.com.
-----------------------------------------------------
Slovenia
Crystal oscillator circuits are old and easy to build.

You are working with ultrasonic waves here. Musical instruments will give fine examples.

What material and geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?, use that for your atomizing chamber.

How to adhere crystals, many different ways, what is best for you?. Other researchers used flexible materials, I use solid, it don't matter, what ever way that is practical for you.

How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?.

You answer is widely available. Forget wikipedia and these forums, look elsewhere. What did the other inventors used?. Patents, old books etc.

[Slovenia]

Vicker's Post from, "Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting"

from thread: Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting

Easy Way To Make Crystals!!

March 13, 2011
Vickers

Hope Powerme don't mind but I would like to simplify some of his very simple instructions. (just to speed things up a little).

Zinc oxide can be bought at any pottery supply outlet over the counter.
May not be nano... but if u really keen u can grind the hell out of it with a mortar and pestle for as long as u can.

Can concentrate ammonia easily and safely using a crock pot with upside down lid full of icewater. Place a small collector bowl in center of crock pot.

Instead of mag stirrer and hotplate use a plastic drink bottle. Ur household hot tap water is 60C. To prevent fumes make sure u seal it as mentioned in powerme first post. This is perfectly safe. There will be zero pressure build up. Learn boiling temp of water VS boiling temp of ammonia.
Immerse bottle in hot tap water to heat and shake the hell out of it every minute or so. The longer the better.

Freeze overnight to concentrate the ammonia and slowly heat again to maximize the reaction of highly concentrated yet safely contained ammonia.

Pour onto oven tray and evaporate.

Scrape up ur crystals.

Done.

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 18, 2011)

Guys!
I have Great news!
The last batch of crystals did the trick. I let them sit for longer than I usually would, and I thought that I was allowing it to grow longer crystals. I didn't know if it worked or not until I had it dried. It stopped raining today, and my crystals finally dried out. Some of them that were stuck to the masonry jar.

So I scratched some of the crystals off the masonry jar. Put it into a ziplock baggie. Sucked out all the air I could.

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/s...0317012142.jpg

Put it in water, above the pizeoelectric. The waves were heavily dampened by the ziplock bag, but after a few minutes, I could see a few air bubbles in there that were not present before.

Took a bigger ziplock bag, and more of that batch of crystals. Still little bubbles seemed to add up over time. Because the crystals were not "stuck" to any surface, they were constantly swooshing around the bag. I could not easily discern, which were air bubbles,and which were little zinc oxide bits floating around.

So, I stuck the transducer inside the masonry jar, and left it on its side. No mist was produced, but I hammered the insides of that jar with the pond fogger frequency. It appeared to still be producing minute ammounts of air, out of the water. Little bubbles rose to the surface.

The pictures are bad quality -- but you might be able to see them. They liked to bubble up around the power chord.

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/s...0317012148.jpg

So, what have I concluded?

They DO work. The crystals ARE pizeo-electric, and they produce HHO, in minute quantities.

So, what is the next step?

We need to be making the crystals work better.

=================================

Powerme just mentioned a structure which amplified wave frequency. I suspect a common household bowl, or "half basketball" shape would do the trick, if the ZnO were bound in the center somehow -- where the wave would be most compressed into the crystals.

Making the ultrasonic transducer run faster -- past 43 KHZ, also suposed to increase HHO production. Peirce oscilator circut for the frequency mod. (Sorry, I missed that. )

Making my own ZnO from zamak may be useful. (For the Al, and Mg. in small quantities in it)

The Ionizer to produce HHO, Post-mist-fogger in setup.

======================

I will be posting my further progress this week, in how I will be fine-tuning the system.
For now, the proof-of-concept -- IT WORKS.

Happy thursday to a close,
I hope we make it in enough time.


On an off-tangent note -- Powerme, I do not quite know what I am preparing for.
I only know that I am bracing against something to come.
Is there any way that I can know what I need to be prepared with? Or how I need to be prepared? If not from you, where may I learn it? How long do we have? It is driving me nuts to see everything slipping up a little bit, and not know how long I have.

Thank you for your time -- I am trying.
So far, it seems to be working.

==Romo

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (Post #163)

Guys, you are making this harder than it is. I had asked that you look at the Pierce oscillator circuit, the transducer is driven only by crystal transistor with capacitor. Oscillation can be altered by voltage, crystal angles or temperature. Wave frequency in the water needs to be 43khz +. If you keep increasing frequency, you will end up with abundant HHO from piezo only.

The Zno crystals amplifies the effect. What bonds H2+0, it has a property that you are controlling here. You need to be adhere ZnO to a permanent structure, what crystal geometry best amplifies wave frequency?. they are the same one used in electronics.

Nebulizer circuit, same as humidifier. http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/ef441_nb.pdf

Look at the Sol-tec video, there's a comment on a patent application there from Japan, research it. There are many ways to dissociate water into HHO with little energy expense.

You do not have much time, TIME is a luxury which you do not have. Earth is Changing!.

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 16, 2011)

March 16, 2011
Romo
I'm calling the manufacturer for a few ultrasonic humidifiers.
I'll post what I find out from them. From what it sounds like so far -- You
have to compensate at a higher input voltage, of offset the "inefficiencies"
that ocurr at higher frequencies of the vibrating transducer.
I think it may be easiest (for the primary working model at least) to have an
oscilator/humidifier that runs between 40-50 KHZ.
I asked about the frequencies, because if we are just using the crystals in
HHO production, we can use a jewlery cleaner for the extra HHO liberation.
Thereafter -- use the pond fogger, and the "ionizer" to pump the air + hho
into the intake manifold of the engine.
(These are my plans)
I am not trying for a selfrunner -- just a proof-of-concept model, that you can
run an engine on sheerly HHO, and water. Afterwards, I have generated
sufficent interest in a working model, that I can investigate soley using the
cheaper pond foggers, and the ionizers to produce the nescessary HHO to
make it a selfrunner. This might have the potential cut out the pizeo-electric
crystals entirely -- I do not yet know. Tests, and funds are further required
for that.
I am simply trying to get SOMETHING to produce the HHO nescessary to
make a primary model. So far, I can either modify the pond fogger (might
not work, I have not found solid information -- after to days searching, it is a
little frustrating. I don't know if I'm looking for the correct keywords or
information about the foggers.)
Any ideas?
==Romo

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 16, 2011)

March 16, 2011
Romo

Rad HHO, as you slowed down the frequency, the voltage went up? I would
think that you would have hit a standstill (a point which thereafter, the pizeo-
electric would not respond). I think that may be limited by your input
voltage.
My thought here, is that the two are co-related. Except with increasing the
frequency, you would need more voltage to compensate. I do not know why,
but this is just the route that I would normally investigate with the wave-
generators. (Edit: This is what e2matrix said.
Thanks for the info!
)
I have found some circut-boards. China markets are pretty diverse, and can
find a lot of stuff. You just gotta look carefully:
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroo...etec1/product-
detailFMOQVpBKMHkI/China-Ultrasonic-Generator-Ultrasonic-PCB-.html
Thoughts there?
On the off chance that anyone can look -- why not just look into a high
frequencey ultrasonic transducer?
I am finding some transducers which are of novel cost (I'd assume shipping is
the kicker):
http://www.alibaba.com/product-
gs/352922184/10w_50Khz_Ultrasonic_transducer.html
If the pizeo's do not work (or if we cannot easily adapt the input voltage to
match the frequency), then I would imagine that these kind of transducers
may fit the bill.
My next questions: Do we know if we are trying to hit 43 KHZ exactly, or just
above the 43 KHZ range?
Next, why are we looking for the dis-association frequencey? How do the
crystals just "help" the dis-association (does it work better at certain
frequencies, or is it just the electrical oscilation of the crystal that rips water
molecules apart?)
Is it not the electric force that we are breaking, through the pizeoelectric
oscilations at a set frequency? Or does this somehow infer that through
sound that we can manipulate the electric nature of matter? I would imagine
"constructive intereference" to be coupling together, amplifying itself at at
certain resonant frequencies to produce electric effects?
If this is the case, this would sound like a base, in the work that keeley was
associated with.
These questions are posed to everyone -- they are questions which I would
normally ask myself. In this case, I have not yet found the answers to them,
so instead of reporting back with the answer, I am merely asking the question.
I hope it sparks someone else to discuss,
==Romo

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 16, 2011)

March 16, 2011
Romo

The books contained in "book package"
(Lemme know if the link goes down)
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
The life of henry caverndesh - This guy was also interested in igniting water.
He discovered hydrogen, and all sorts of quirks about water. This book has
given me the beginning of some tangents to press further into his works. (I.E.
Looking up more stuff about him)
A treatise on cemistry - Metals (part I & II)
Zinc production and history -- A book about 18th century uses, and refining
techniques for zinc. This book has given me a general idea on how to process
zamak -- as well as some of the "crystal" forms of zinc. I have not carefully
looked twice, but have not found that they knew about pizeoelectric
properties of the crystals in this book.
Powerme, can you throw out any tangents that relate to these crystals? How
did you learn how to "make the honey of different nectars" with these
crystals? What kind of book/publication can we find the information about
lead sulfide/oxide crystals that you are talking about growing? Did they
know in "olden days" what the properties of the crystals were?(I.E.what
would they call the effects of the crystals that we would be making?) What
kind of process are we making the crystals with? What did they call those
processes?
I am looking for more tangents to research, to 'get ahead' in crystal
production -- what aim we will be having with the leaden crystals. Any clear
processes, or instructions are much valued.
For instance -- after you mentioned "influencing", I knew I should become
aquainted with all the information about the subject that I could. (Of which,
I am still looking for more, to make the ionizer/wind pump). Any other
processes, or key words in those processes that will assist on what is going on
with the crystals (how they draw energy from the enviroment) -- what kind of
energy they will be harvesting (I suspect, infared radiation?) -- how we will be
rectifying both sides of the wave (in the crystal oscilation), ETC.
That is, unless I am putting the cart before the horse here.
Anything is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for all your help so far,
==Romo

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 15, 2011)

March 15, 2011
Romo
The ultrasonic pond foggers have an oscilator on them already. Those
oscilators, (for watever reason) were not made to be vibrating at the 43 KHZ
that we want them to. Currently, mine does not vibrate fast enough.
When you make them vibrate faster -- you encounter "ineffecinces" -- I
would suspect that this may be the reason powerme has a 36 V input power --
so that the thing still runs or produces forceful enough oscilations. I will see
about keeping the same input transformer (24v) with a faster oscilator, and
seeing if the voltage input needs to be stepped up or not.
As chance would have it, one of my room-mates father's is an electrical
engineer. I will be contacting him shortly, and he should also be able to give
me his "two cents" about something that should work.
Progress will first be made by someone who posts what their "known
electrical engineer" says about a circut. Mine will contact me in a few days.
If anyone else's contacts them sooner -- please post info, so that we can each
'cross check' to see if one's methods will work or not. (For me, double
checking has been a good practice thus far)
My spark plug arrived today for the 160 CC engine. So the fogger is the last
bit that I need to get working (at the right frequencies), and then I should be
able to confirm a replicated "water runner". I have everything else on-hand,
and ready.
At first, I will be testing a lead-acid battery envelopes -- and a will investigate
a secondary way of sticking the crystals to some form of acrylic, or steel
plates, with some kind of adhesive.
This is all the progress I can report, aside from reading into some books that
powerme might have also "suggested" (at least, a book related to his tangents
left behind) to read about.
Will post some of these books shortly,
==Romo

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (March 15, 2011)

March 15, 2011
Power1
Great job guys!! Please keep it simple.
Stay with the cheap china piezo, they have decent life, 1500 hrs average and is
readily available. Someone mentioned the humidifiers, some model comes
with variable frequency, no further modification needed but a bit more costly.
e2matrix, I had tried Tesla oscillation and it does work as well to ionize fog
using tubular condenser, and added bonus is repulsion effect but it's a whole
different approach.

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 14, 2011)

March 14, 2011
Romo
Quote from: RAD-HHO on March 13, 2011, 07:00:42 PM
Romo,
Have you seen the video Power to be posted the link for a while back? I almost missed it.
His transducer is out of a humidifier and it operates at 48 Khz. It has the driver circuit
too. Easy access for mods. I may have to go to walmart.
YouTube - Ultrasonic Gasoline Vaporizer by Sul-tech
Great video.
Thanks again Power to be.
Thanks for the link! I totally missed that.
From the looks of things, as I am taking apart one of the two transducers I have -- They look like
they're not going to give up their little circutboard easily. This leads me to the conclusion, we will
effectively have to build our own circutboard, or find one.
Circutry, gentlemen, is not my area of expertise.
Is there any way we can have circutboards made through an onlinecompany, and then distributed
through this group? I might know a few of them that wouldn't be too expensive.
Like I said though -- It is not my area of expertise. I do not think I have the technical-know-how to
build one of those things from scratch. I'm currently looking up the how-to's -- but I think there must
be a faster way.
So, what I am proposing, is to make a joint effort to create the circutboard/oscilator circut, and then we
would purchase them, distribute them -- and effectively have the same working oscillator on the
transducer in the end.
Please contact me via PM, or at askromo@gmail.com
I am looking to get this done as soon as possible (within a few days).
If you're on the ball for this project, I hope to hear from you.
On a side note -- has anyone given much consideration as to where to bind the crystals?
I was thinking of putting them on the inside of a copper-pipe and laying a very thin layer of expoxy or
ceramic therein. (pipe as per-that last video)
I could then put the spark gap outside the pipe, and into a secondary mist chamber. The primary
"mister" would be governed by the "influencer" to produce more HHO. The secondary chamber would
be towards adding more water vapor, so that the mixture does not become too HHO rich.
Then, on to the inlet/intake manifold.
The valve on the side of the copper pipe would be attached to a refill-sensor (for a later build version),
and added water when need be.
Like this,
==Romo

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (March 14, 2011)

March 14, 2011
Power1
Hey Slovenia,
Thank you for your continued effort. Your pvc idea is great, it is a very
durable material. My little shoebox was just a quick way to entice people into
seeing the many possibilities of water as fuel. Experiment with your setup,
you will come up with your own unique way.
For self eccentric, it will develop over time, much like speech process. My
process started with cosmic orgasm, and the manifestation of intelligent
entities, yes they do exist, hence I was a Dog but don't dwell upon the phases,
keep moving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo, you have a great mind, there are many papers though restricted in
Sonochemistry and other published works that employed Keeleys findinds of
water dissociation at 43khz. The ZnO crystals amplifies the HHO production.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nature is the best way to go, but a concentrated natural dose will allow one to
experience the higher realm first hand, not a good way but a helpful one,
Leary had already explained them but it's a tiny portion of the All.
Good luck all and thank you for your efforts, everyone has their own unique
way.

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (March 14, 2011)

March 14, 2011
Romo
Two things.
One -- Distilling the ammonium is easiest done inside the freezer, and a jar of
some kind.
Bring it down to 0* -- the water freezes, and the ammonium doesnt. Use a
metalfilter, to "screen" off the ice.
Do it twice, and it's WAY above the concentration that we need for this
experiment. THAT is the simplest that I've found, and stick to this one as of
yet. Takes about 6 hours to distill it twice.
Second,
Those "natures aids" reminded me of something I read about shaman, and
psychoactives. They called Salvia divinorum the "shaman's herb". Someone
I knew, also grew crystals (a concentrated version of the psychoactive in
Salvia) from the stuff, and tripped out really hard. Kid never was the same
thereafter.
Drugs, are not the "real" way to open up various parts of your endocrine
system (chakras) -- but can temporarily open them up, so that you know
when the thing is "open" or not. For some people, it works because it gives
them a roadmap of getting themselves more "enlightened" but because your
body needs to 'process' the chemicals, it can be harder on your liver or
kidneys.
Knowing when the different parts are "open" can let you know what you
need to do, on a daily basis in order to become more "open". Now, taking
drugs -- won't help you if you don't pay attention to where your feelings go in
the first place. This might be a little bit over some people's heads -- but
feelings travel places in your body.
When you are frustrated, or angry -- Most people know the "lump" in your
throat. How did the lump get there? Where does it go when you get rid of it?
(Answer here, Most people know the sigh after being frustrated & had solved
it -- The sigh is the physical indicator of a deeper process. When I say the
feelings "travel" between bodyparts -- I am asking you to pay attention to
where your feelings go, or how they feel when they go somewhere. You
become more sensitive with this over time.)
Also, people don't always pay attention to the "tingles" that happen when you
have a good idea, or have done something right.
Your body is a very powerful tool, and will tell you quite a bit you'll need to
know. All you need do, is listen.
If you are sensitive to these internal processes, and are aware what happens to
you on a regular basis -- experiencing the altered state, can be insightful.
This is terribly off tangent though. Onward to the pizeo-electric today and
tomorrow!
==Romo