Discussion. Best way to use heat from HHO to generate electricity

[FRC]

Quote from: RAD-HHO on Today at 09:19:49 PM

Automobiles typically use a 12 DC system. I assume this is what you are talking about when you say 12v. Please explain to me how you can get 36 volts from 12v using only a simple toroid transformer. I don't have any idea what a JT light is, but I do know you cant use a transformer with DC unless you pulse it.


March 23, 2011
Altrez

I can help you. Your fogger is it running from AC? If so It should already be at 24v AC output around 1 amp. Can you please verify this?

-Altrez

With the 12vdc you could run it through an inverter to 110 AC then use a AC stepdown transformer to 36v, then diode or fwbr back to DC. Three off the shelf 12v adapter wall
warts would also work in series.

FRC

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (Post #287)

March 24, 2011
Power1


Altrez,
The truth is plain and simple, but people would rather fiddle with 100 components to produce results of a simple wave effect that can be done with a coil and crystal. Coil bridging was done by Tesla in his pancake coil.


RAD
This is very silly. If you intend to continue to participate in lies and misleading then Let it Be.! ;D ;D God sped.

You all have a nice day.

[Slovenia]

Power1 Post from OU (Post #298)

March 24, 2011
Power1


Altrez,
For your sonofusion, silicon absorbs waves readily. The high notes of ether vibration converts waves into light ahd the lower notes produces cold. You want to avoid the middle notes where waves becomes heat thus causing great loss. Look into zinc sulfide, it inhibts the required quality to excite water at high tones. Your route through scientific approach will be fruitless as Element Phases is already stripped off the current knowledge and you will only be disproved times again.

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RAD,
If you must uphold your current values then please accept my most humble apology. I am only sorry for having tried to show you what is truth in Nature's realm.

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@All,
This is a very simple project, so simple that it is quite silly that we have endured durations of weeks and coming into months and later years to replicate a simple approach to liberate water with low tone waves.

I am not your Teacher. You are ONLY blinded by artificial intelligence and will continue not to see.


Good luck to you all and have a nice day.

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU ( Post #324)

March 25, 2011
Slovenia

Chamber for Transducer & other stuff
I think the geometry for the chamber where the transducer sits may be important too and so far I don't have any ideas for it that really make me feel great. I can think of a lot of possibilities, but none of the ones I'm thinking of give me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside. You know the one I mean. I want our project to be successful, so I'm hoping Power To Be will give us a few pointers on this.

A good material for the chamber I feel would be polypropylene, cutting board material. It's easy to machine, easy to get online, and fairly inexpensive.

We need to get a good working prototype going soon or we're going to have a lot of folks loose interest. Power To Be wants us to all take an active part in this project, but I know how things go, a few do all the work while a majority sit in the stands and watch to see if it's a successful venture before helping. Well guys, we do need your input and their are some hurdles we need to jump over.

We need a good way to plate the crystals on the bowl receiver so that they will stay in place and not easily be vibrated or washed off. There's serious water activity in the cell and if the plating is not done right, it will wash off the bowl quickly. I was going to use epoxy to attach my crystals to my receiver bowl, but the still small voice inside me said don't do it that way.

I've found a good brass horn for us to use I think and it's only $6.00 each, but I still haven't found a suitable brass bowl. My gut is telling me that a good bowl size is approximately 2.5" in diameter and I just haven't found those dimensions yet. Also, we need the walls of the bowl to be thin enough that they will resonate freely and I'm thinking 1 mm to 1.5 mm might be the right thickness.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Also, I'm getting a gut feeling that we really should have two transducers in the cell like in Power's diagram. I was trying to keep my price down in my test cell, but anything worth doing is worth doing right. So, what do you think?

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU(Post #325)

March 25, 2011
Slovenia

Egg Shaped Chamber
I'm leaning towards an egg shaped chamber to help direct a spiraling upward spinning vortex wave towards my receiver. Of course, the horn would be attached to the top end of the egg if that's what I finally decide on. Small end pointed in the up position.

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU ( Post #319)

March 25, 2011
Slovenia

Power1 Transducers
I was going through some old Power1 notes last night that I hadn't studied that throughly, and came across something interesting. He said that he used 5 cm Piezo transducers, but that the 2 cm would be fine to use.

I personally think I want to use what he is using myself. Anyway, I wanted to share this.

Also, Power To Be said in an early post that we only needed to buy the ceramic piezo transducers and we as a team with his help would design our own atomizing chamber which the piezo transducer would be mounted in. I hope this offer still stands Power To Be. Thanks for everything.

36 volts pulsed dc
2 x 5 cm piezo runs at 36v pulsed dc taken from genset, average 280 watts power consumption.

[Slovenia]

Fishman post from OU (Post #316)

Quote from: Sprocket on March 25, 2011, 03:47:46 PM

Why does everyone seem to be going the route of making Zn0 themselves, rather than just buying the stuff? It would make sense if this was something that was suppressed and unobtainable, but it's not - it's dirt-cheap, ($11 per Ib, shipping included) high-grade and easily bought online. And what is this obsession with the piezo's frequency? Unless I'm mistaken this has nothing to do with 'resonance', all you're looking for is something that will produce lots of 'fog' and I'm sure the piezo manufacturers have already chosen the optimum frequency for the transducer in question to produce this effect. The premise of this thread is that the piezo/Zn0 combination greatly enhances the production of HHO, yet 20 pages later, not one single confirmation of this - it either works or it doesn't! And "cavitation" is now entering the fray! Aaaaggghhhh......

March 25, 2011
Fishman

I believe the link you refer to is for Zn0 nano podwer, not Zno nano crystals.

This new optimum frequency 43kHz thing, is a curve that was not really said to be a requirement originally. I was originally under the impression that was not required.
Changing the frequency of a fogger is beyond my capability, so for that part im in a indefinite standby mode.

The other thing that holds me up is adhering the crystals. I cant help but think if i use any adhesive that the adhesive would wick up the crystals, and probably render them useless? I hate to waste the crystals so im really in no hurry to try that.

The 2 or 3 people how have tried the crystals free floating had no positive results to report. I guess i could go ahead and do this test scene i have no good answers to the other 2 issues.

I did put the US fogger aimed at the crystals attached to my cooking jar. I did not see any bubbles form.

I don't think its as simple as "ether it works or it doesn't" Like most things, if you don't do it right, it is not going to work.

[Slovenia]

Power1's Transducer Circuit

March 23, 2011
Power1

Power To Be Gift, his transducer circuit described pretty well.

There are many ways of controlling frequency. It depends on what you
are using. I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using a simple toroid
wound step up transformer. The same one they use in jewel thief light. My
frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal
transistor was the only needed component.

[Morpheus0101]

waves

Hey guys sorry I haven't been more active in this project but I've had a lot going on.
Well I managed to find my ultrasonic fogger the other day and so played around with it a bit to see if there was any residual hydrogen without doing anything else.
So I fired it up and poured the mist over a candle and sure enough there is the odd snap now and again, ok not very scientific as it doesn't prove anything but it's convinced me to build the plasma spark plug again to see how the mist would perform.
Another thing I did which was interesting was I put my scope probe to the water to see what the waveform and frequency was like, as I don't know what the frequency of the fogger is running at.
Anyway I only picked up the wave whilst in contact with the water or sometimes on the glass container if I hit the right spot so I'm fairly convinced that the crystals need to be in contact if not in the water.
Basically anything that conducts electricity that i put in contact with the water picked up the waveform.
I know I'm way behind as I haven't got any zinc oxide yet but I'm planing on running the fogger with the zinc crystals in the water as a way to disperse it evenly into the water then electroplating a piece of zinc anode onto maybe a bronze cathode chamber. I wouldn't get fancy with the chamber yet until we can see whats working...

[Slovenia]

Romo Post from OU (Post #327)

March 26, 2011
Romo

Howdy. It's been a little while.

I had to kill off a midterm, so I am sorry for not having posted this stuff sooner, though I learned of this earlier in the week. After finishing some precalc/calc equations on that test -- I cannot express the sense of resentment, and dis-satisfaction I had with the theoretical problems I have completed, for a teacher to scribble a number on a page "45/50 points". I guess it just made sense to me that it didn't have a real connection to reality -- and that working instead with my hands -- seemed to be the real learning.

I do not know if anyone is experiencing anything similar -- I now consider my chemistry 109 Class to be a joke. If I could learn things like this for the rest of my life -- regardless of from whom it is taught (I hope to be teaching these things to myself eventually) -- I would be a very happy man.

=================================
So, without further indulging in personal life -- here is some information (nuts and bolts) that I am not sure if everyone is clear on already. Hope it clears some stuff up.
=================================

The Pizeo ceramic discs are specifically made to have a resonant frequency. The ones that come in the pond foggers already -- run at about 1.7 MHZ -- much too fast.

Putting them for an hour or two on several batches of crystals has destroyed most of their functionality. I do not know why they were destroyed -- I only know that after awhile, the batches go "dead", and no longer produce tiny HHO bubbles. To this extent, I am certain that you can get minute quantities of HHO -- I mentioned before that I can get a lighter to flicker.

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Experiment
================================
Get a baloon to test what kind of gas is comming out of the fuel chamber/tupperware. Light it on fire if you want a test "bang" (and if you don't have ear plugs -- get them. a very small quantity of air in the baloon will suffice -- If it "bangs" it is HHO, if not -- I don't know what to tell you. Also, A full baloon is very dangerous)

If you havent constructed a fuel chamber -- tupperware are cheap, and dispensible. Don't put the tupperware too close to the side of the transducer, it burns from the fogger, just like RadHHO showed. It's pretty nifty to burn it though to see what happens.
=============================

I know at least, I dont want the crystals to be destroyed after a few hours of operation. So, This means, we will need a transducer which resonates around 45 KHZ. There are several different kinds you can get -- some for ultrasonic welding and cosmetic cavitation -- those are the ones which do not produce mist.

You CAN use these ones -- but you will need another pond fogger to produce the mist effect -- so that you have mist along with the HHO to burn inside the engine cylinder. This is a use for a secondary pond 1.7 MHZ fogger. Just to make the mist.

Here are Some examples of the 50 MM discs that run at 45 KHZ -- Look at the bottom of the page
PIEZO CERAMIC TRANSDUCER SAMPLES

They're a little pricey, but if you dont want -- you can find similar ones on ebay if you want to rush ship it. They also come cheaper from overseas, at the cost of time in shipping.

I.E --
Ultrasonic piezo transducer 45Khz products, buy Ultrasonic piezo transducer 45Khz products from alibaba.com
ultrasonic cleaning transducer 45khz products, buy ultrasonic cleaning transducer 45khz products from alibaba.com

Here's a little something that I couldn't find on the internet -- I had to talk to a technician for this bit of info. The pizeo foggers do not tune well. They are MADE to shake at a certain speed. If you tune it anything drastically past its frequency -- without compensating by increasing electrical power input (which, I do not know how to do safely) -- You will loose power to your wave amplitude. For the sake of making the setup the most efficient possible -- we need to look for a pizeo disc with (+/-)5 KHZ. So, either a 40-45 KHZ fogger should be good to tune with around the proper frequency. I would even think a 50KHZ might work, because you could tune it slightly out of resonance, with small power losses.

The reason we are looking for "around" 45 KHZ, is because we are looking to tune it within the resonant frequency -- so that we do not loose power in the amplitude of the waves we are creating.

Something else to look out for -- is the maximum power rating of the transducer. You will need a power circuit, and a transformer to be around that rating. (I would suggest slightly less, or spot on the max power rating).

You might even be able to hook up simply a different ceramic without much modification to the original 1.7 MHZ circuit. I have not yet tested this yet. When I do, I will post results -- for now, this was intended for a little bit of "food for thought".

If need be, I found a great local electronics shop where I got help with transformer winding. I might need a different transformer than the stock transformer that came with the original pond fogger. (Like powerme was saying all along... >.< )
I suggest also finding a local shop. Sincerely asking for help, because I did not understand completely what I was doing at the shop I went to -- the people were remarkably friendly and helpful.

=============================
Something I wanna stress here:
The internet is by no means the limits to the ways you can find your solutions. Books, libraries, Phone books (to call companies who make electronics parts), electronics shops, engineers, professors -- If you do not give up and beleive that you are capable of finding a solution -- you will have the determination to poke around any knowledge-barrier. This is at least, my experience.
=============================


I am also working on electroplating with a car battery and a pretty hefty resistor, instead of one of them power supplies. Much cheaper alternative.

If you are looking up electroplating, there IS a specific voltage and current input you're going to need to make it stick to a given surface area. You usually need a variable power source -- but I wanna do it cheaper, and can use my brain to calculate the necessary resistor values (with the help of a book). Hence, the resistor on the battery -- to reduce voltage and limit current flow, so that I do not "fry" my solution anymore. The crystals also become "dead" if you ram too many volts, or amps through it.

I don't have the volts or amps figures off the top of my head right now, but I found the value I needed in an electroplating hobbyist handbook. It was under "zinc electroplating" or "Zinc oxide electroplating".

I find it interesting that, though electricity is a dampened wave, It still can destroy the crystals functionality. (I.E -- Induce an undesirable phase change)

I am currently working on a book list to download and read -- I am now determined to accumulate all the works of Russel, Keeley, and Tesla. Does anyone know if there has already been a list of compiled works from either of those authors? If nobody answers, I'll find he answer soon enough anyways...

Also, Just a tangent Has anyone ever seen keeley's acoustic charts, and compared to Russel's charts? They're awfully similar. (Or, the charts from code 144.com? -- posted @ energetic forums about leedskalinin)

I found that reading keeley after being in trance (meditating, bineural, or hypnosis) -- makes it much easier to understand. After reading it, I only know that it makes sense to me. I do not know how -- But I only know that I get a "feel" for what the author meant, and then I understand. Does anyone else get this? Does anyone know what this is?? This is a curious matter for me, as I want to understand why It makes sense to me, and sometimes not my friends whom I tell about these things.

Anyways, While I am waiting for the foggers with the correct resonant frequency to come in the mail -- I will be using the 1.7 MHZ fogger ceramic to make a fuel atomizer, so that I can begin tweaking my engine to run on a water-mist/gasoline mixture as is. Some of powerme's general figures said that his friend was able to reduce by 30% gasoline with the atomizer. This will be a target figure for me to investigate tomorrow and sunday.

I begin testing tomorrow after I can bike down the the auto store for the fuel-can, and fuel-line tubing.

===========================
Technical information /end
============================

Guys, if you ARE experimenting with this -- I would highly appreciate it if you Post your setups, and READ CAREFULLY what powerme said.

Most of the questions, or recent posts I have seen in this thread seem to be fluff -- repeating what powerme has said -- or someone else going "Aha! This is what he meant!" When the answer has laid in front of us all along. That isn't exactly learning -- that's reading more carefully what should have been read in the first place. I'm personally trying NOT to ask powerme direct questions and work with what I have, because I feel like that's pestering him for information that he already may have said. I know I sure don't like to repeat myself.

Plus -- I figure -- what if Powerme decides to leave? I would not like this, because I am still trying to process, and understand the information -- but the bottom line is, I need to be able to collect my information myself. Like the bailout with the US auto industry, and foreign trade regulations/taxes on foreign import cars -- It's only hurting the companies who are getting the "easy way out" in the end.

I can only imagine that it would be frustrating to see this thread post little progress -- and seem to be floundering through the information we have been given. I at least, know that my patients gets thinner when I desire something to be done quickly.

I am trying to fill in some gaps that powerme left in his information, with answers that I have encountered in my research. I hope this is helpful, and that it encourages other people get caught up to speed on the project,

==Romo

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU ( Post #328)

March 26, 2011
Slovenia

Hi Romo,

Great to have you back. I've been trying to keep the thread alive on both Energetic and here at OU, so I have reposted some Power1 information that I thought some of the others may have missed. As you said everybody ought to have got it the first time, but some guys don't read everything posted and then they don't go back and study the old posts. So, much information is missed and I was just trying to help in that area. I don't want the thread to die, because I think Power To Be has a lot more to share if we'll show him some success in our experiments, (i.e.: producing the crystals to his specifications and building a test cell to his specifications). I for one, what to have a look at this 10 Kw free energy machine he made reference to. Anyway, I also wanted to show Power To Be that there is still interest in his project so he'll keep visiting this thread and helping us from time to time.

Thanks for all you have shared!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[Slovenia]

Post Your Results

If you care about this thread and are engaged in experimentation with regards to what has been posted by Power1, please post your results. The thread is in danger of dying and Power1 said he would share some great things if we produced what he asked us to. Power1 said that we had to have the knowledge of the crystals and the fogger scenario clear in our minds before we could go to the next level. He was going to show us how to add electric wind and extreme power from this device. So, if you care about this project and its continuation, please take part here and share with us.

[Slovenia]

Slovenia post from OU ( Post #334)

Thanks Power1 & Romo!!

REM Dreams:
Well guys, there is something to this REM Dream thing. Thanks Power1 & Romo for sharing about it on this thread. It's like there is an information download during your REM Dream cycle. So, how do you get your Higher Self to share with you during this time? Well, you get into a relaxed state before you go to bed in the night and you ask yourself questions expecting an answer. Last night, I ask myself a whole lot of questions concerning this Power1 project, specific questions. Well, in the night I thought about aspects of this project all night while I slept. Whenever I would get up in the night, this project was on my mind hot and heavy. I woke up this morning and couldn't tell you what I learned in the night, but I am at peace with this project now. I know we are going to be successful with it. I know also that I am going to have some help from an area of myself that I was totally unaware could help me.

Timothy Leary:
Also, thanks Power1 for mentioning Timothy Leary. His books are awesome indeed and will get a lot of reading from me. He was a very prolific writer too. Anyway, he has a book on learning that is very awesome indeed. It's entitled "Super Learning".

Anyway Guys, don't sit on the side line. Check out some of these awesome things Power To Be has shared with us. It's all very incredible stuff!!

[Slovenia]

Fogger Update

I did see where Power1 said the foggers would work with regard to this experiment but at a less efficient rate. He did say though to throw away the power supplies that came with the foggers and do certain other things in order to have them work better. I don't remember which post specifically at the moment, but he did mention this. I'll be going back and trying to find that reference again.

Good job Romo!!

[Slovenia]

Chamber of Acoustical Horn

Location of Piezo Transducer:

I do remember where in one post Power1 said the piezo transducer needed to be placed in the chamber of the acoustical horn.

In another post he said we would have to design the chamber together.