Discussion. Best way to use heat from HHO to generate electricity

[Roland]

Hi all,

coming back to crystal growing !!!, the chemical solution has to be supersaturated, the first step is to pour and stir Zinc Oxide into the amonium hydroxide at 60°C, next not necessary to put in a freezer, just put some ice in a bowl of water to get as cold as possible near 0°C

and let your mixed solution until the Zinc Oxide that not melt

I'm not sure i what this means. Does this mean, let the clear ammonium separate?

with the amonium hydorxide felt down the jar.
Next pour only the saturated liquid in an other jar and continue

Does this mean drian off the clear fluid? I'm not sure what felt down means

the next steps as before, crystals should grow instead of a mix of Zinc Oxide and crystals.
For the reflux tube, a spiral plastic tube in a pvc tube fill with ice or fresh water circulating, just use wast materials or what you have, just use your imagination .
To heat up your chemical solution to 60°C you can use a bath of water (or oil to keep it from evaporation) its easier to manage the temparature with a thermometer and stir by hand the mix, not necessary to have a chemical lab at home just use right materials that are compatible with chemicals compound and use (pyrex plastic etc....)

Only my 2 cents contribution !!!, not began yet, to much other things to do.

Geo

PS: @altrez, did you try to use negative corona instead of positive in your water spark plug over mist ???

Thank you Geo

[RAD-HHO]

crystals

Hi all,

coming back to crystal growing !!!, the chemical solution has to be supersaturated, the first step is to pour and stir Zinc Oxide into the amonium hydroxide at 60°C, next not necessary to put in a freezer, just put some ice in a bowl of water to get as cold as possible near 0°C and let your mixed solution until the Zinc Oxide that not melt with the amonium hydorxide felt down the jar.
Next pour only the saturated liquid in an other jar and continue the next steps as before, crystals should grow instead of a mix of Zinc Oxide and crystals.
For the reflux tube, a spiral plastic tube in a pvc tube fill with ice or fresh water circulating, just use wast materials or what you have, just use your imagination .
To heat up your chemical solution to 60°C you can use a bath of water (or oil to keep it from evaporation) its easier to manage the temparature with a thermometer and stir by hand the mix, not necessary to have a chemical lab at home just use right materials that are compatible with chemicals compound and use (pyrex plastic etc....)

Only my 2 cents contribution !!!, not began yet, to much other things to do.

Geo

PS: @altrez, did you try to use negative corona instead of positive in your water spark plug over mist ???

Hey Geo,

I'm no chemist, so just want to clarify.

First, does the ammonium need to be 60°C before we add the ZnO, or can we put it all in, cap it, and heat it to 60°C and mix it?

Second, IMO its easier to just put it in the freezer, unless it cant get colder than 0°C, then the ice might be a better solution.

Third, when you said "let your mixed solution until the Zinc Oxide that not melt with the amonium hydorxide felt down the jar." did you mean let your mixed solution set until the Zinc Oxide that did not melt with the amonium hydroxide falls down to the bottom of the jar?

Forth, then just pour off the clear liquid on top? Whats on bottom is just ZnO that did not melt into the ammonium and settled to the bottom? The liquid on top is saturated?

Fifth, how are we to stir by hand if it is a sealed jar? Swirl it around by hand?

Thanks

[geotrouvetout]

RAD-HHO, Roland and all,

sorry for my bad english, RAD-HHO has resumed all that i would say

First: you can add the zinc oxide into the jar at room temperature and swirl around by hand then add heat and swirl some times during the melting of the zinc oxide with the amonium hydroxide.

Second: it's easier with ice to control the temperature instead of going to far in the negative one, but if you can control the freezer temperature why not using it but it's only for the Third that you translate what i would say

Forth: i say yes on your three questions

Fifth: swirl the jar by hand

thx for your help

i'll try to take more time before writing to be understood

Geo

[Slovenia]

Hot Plate With Magnetic Stirrer

You need to have a laboratory hot plate with a magnetic stirrer. There is a magnet that fits in your covered jar and the hot plate with the magnetic stirrer will spin that magnet stirring stick inside your closed bottle.

If you just have a normal hot plate without a magnetic stirrer, things are a lot harder.

Fifth, how are we to stir by hand if it is a sealed jar? Swirl it around by hand?

Thanks

[geotrouvetout]

slovenia, i agree with you but i try to keep it simple and a laboratory is an investment, but for those who have all the stuff it would be easier to grow the crystals.

Geo

[Slovenia]

Investment

Yes, you are right about the investment part. I was pricing these hot plates with magnetic stirrers. They are not cheap. This is an expensive hobby and we need to keep the costs down where we can.

slovenia, i agree with you but i try to keep it simple and a laboratory is an investment, but for those who have all the stuff it would be easier to grow the crystals.

Geo

[Slovenia]

Sorry geotrouvetout

Sorry, I didn't see your response to RAD-HHO or I wouldn't have answered question #5. We must have posted our replies at about the same time. I was not trying to undermine your post. The kiss principle is always good.

slovenia, i agree with you but i try to keep it simple and a laboratory is an investment, but for those who have all the stuff it would be easier to grow the crystals.

Geo

[geotrouvetout]

you don't have to be sorry Slovenia, i respect all the answer and reply, for sure a magnetic stirrer, hot plate, reflux tube etc ... is the best to do that growing crystals, may be a good price, a second hand or auction is a way to begin a small laboratory and go far to chemical experiments and hobby.

Geo

[petar113507]

Need to get back to homework... Damn School.

You guys -- Growing the crystals really Isn't that hard.

Seriously.

I will give you what I have just reviewed and put into my notebook. Let's see if this helps clarify the procedure at all for anyone else.

So you all know -- I came to these conclusions by asking "why" he would be adding stuff in this particular order, or why he would be using these tools. Also, if you'd re-read everything powerme said -- he spells some procedures out quite clearly, and even gives suggestions for substiutions.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

First of all --
The magnetic stirrer
This might not be a "requisite" -- but rather a helping tool. I'm no chemist, but I know that we use this in the lab to help mix stuff together.
I'll post pictures as to how I took a power drill and a few magnets to make my own stirrer.

I personally think that you don't even really need the stirrer -- it is just a tool to help you get the end result. You don't need the same tools as everybody else has, you just need it to serve the same purpose.

I think that we'd use the stirrer in the beginning to help saturate the solution with the zinc.

We'd use the stirrer during the second "cook" of the crystals to help us break apart the crystals from getting too big. You can also "shake it around" by hand. I know, it's like churning butter the old fashioned way -- but it still makes use-able butter, right?

Regardless, I will test growing two batches to see if the stirrer makes much of a difference or not. I think in the end it might let you get a more even consistency in crystal sizes, so for performance it might help out.

But powerme has been hankering for us to get some crystals up and made for quite a while. So -- I'm shooting for a batch that should fit the bill to work.

Second of all --
The Ammonium hydroxide solution is 30% for a very specific reason. The zinc dissolves in that stuff -- and doesn't freeze at 0 Degrees.

The reason you would heat it up to 60 Degrees in the first "cook" is to allow the zinc to melt/dissolve in the solution.

This might mean it's better to buy a more concentrated version of the hydroxide. I'm distilling mine with some refridgerator tubing -- and I'm going for a ROUGH estimate of the stuff. I figure, a slightly higher concentration can't hurt too bad -- I'd imagine say the ballpark I'm aiming for is 30-35%.

Have not tested up to 40% concentration -- but I'll get around to it when I can. Can someone else give me a hand here?

Thirdly --
You do not need a reflux condenser. The reflux condenser is there to help manage the pressures so that it doesn't blow up in your face. This is a saftey concern for me -- so I did my homework and looked for something that could be a makeshift condenser.


Pressure becomes more of an issue as you go up with higher percentages of ammonium hydroxide. The hydroxide stuffs evaporates at a lower temp. than the water does, making a buildup in the gaseous pressure inside the masonry jars at the lower temperatures.

If you're as paranoid as I am, I bought some extra aluminum tubing to make a makeshift reflux condenser. The point of having the condenser would be to disperse excess heat, so that the pressures do not get too high inside the 1/2 gal. Masonry jars.

For example -- I will also give you my procedure. I'm going to be as painfully clear as I can be here.

I cannot offer you all pictures from my house -- I can only draw in my notebook what I have done, and use the school's public cameras to upload my drawings. I will post those tomorrow.

Now.... These are the parameters that I understand that we need to stay inside.

Distill ammonium hydroxide from 10% up to approx. 30%
This means taking 600 ML, and funneling the distilling tube into another masonry jar. Measure out 200 ML of water, and dump it into the second masonry jar. Use a sharpie to mark about where the water level is.
Distill until the ammonium is slightly under the 200 ML mark.

A little more concentrated doesn't hurt -- but a little less than concentrated, won't give you the crystals.

Heat up the solution to 60 Degrees centigrade.
Throw in the zinc, little by little.

I didn't want all my vapors of ammonium escaping, so I drilled a hole in the cap of the masonry jar, and threw Gorilla expoxy around the handle of a spoon/small ladle, so that I could add the zinc to the solution while the jar was still sealed.

You add it in smaller quantities so that the solution saturates evenly.

Leave it at 60 degrees for 30 mins.

Add ice and salt to a bucket. The cold water will have more surface area with the jar, and cool it faster/better.

Put masonry jar into cold bucket/ice chest of ice slush. Let cool to 0* centigrade. The mixture should not freeze. If it freezes -- you either let it get too cold, or you did not use a concentrated enough mixture of ammonium.

(As a note, it is useful like nobody's business to stick a dinky, cheap 2$ thermometer on the inside the jar.)

Let the jar sit around 0 Degrees for about an hour. Something is happening to the fluid at this point that I don't know.

heat back up mixture at 60 degrees -- This is when the crystals start to grow. Let the mixture sit for about 2 hours at this temperature. Stir/shake every 5 minutes to prevent the crystals from growing too big.

If the crystals get too big, I'm not sure they'll work the same. Remember, we want them to oscilate/resonate at above 30 KHZ, so they have to be pretty tiny.

Keep the mixture at 60 Degrees as best you can. The differences in crystals form here due to temperature fluxuations. Whomever made crystals before did not get the temperatures as exact, which is why I would suspect those crystals are not as 'useful' as anticipated.

(Guys, powerme gave this as a trouble shooting suggestion -- I have not yet encountered this difficulty yet, as I dialed in my stove beforehand -- but consistency in temperature seems to be a key here)

If you are REALLY worried about mixing the stuff up, and think your hand-swooshing won't do it and don't have a stirrer, I have two suggestions.

Use a spoon, drill another hole in the masonry jar lid, and use some epoxy, or some other suitable pressure-sealant, that won't dissolve in a solvent. Make the spoon tip/middle be around the middle of the 200 ML sharpie mark you made.

If you're not going to even take the time to look at the epoxy section's labels in the hardware store -- I don't know what to tell you. It should say RIGHT THERE "Solvent resistant" or something.

Oh wait. No, here's something else that will fit the same function. Grab some ball bearings from the hardware store. Throw those in so that when you swish them around, they help mix it up.

FRC -- I am not sure I know the method to use epsom salts with the mixture. Powerme said that at 10% some dangerous thing might happen -- so I'm holding off on adding Mg. to the mixtures until I can process some 'zamak' (sp?) myself. The reason he suggested to use this metal, and refine it yourself -- is because even if you screw up refining it -- You'll still get a pretty good mix of zinc oxide, mg. and al.


And lastly, I think the intent behind the rule of "giving guns to youngsters" is to make sure they have the proper judgment capacity, in order to handle the gun safely. Not because they are inherently young -- or the young are inherently dangerous with guns.


Also, if you haven't gotten more satisfactory answers from powerme -- Maybe it'll get you faster answer to test it yourself, instead of constantly asking powerme.
I'm just sayin'.

Besides -- maybe it's not a good idea to trust us youngsters.
It might be better for all of you to read the papers powerme posted about growing the crystals in the first place -- and then compare it to his method to growing crystals, so that you can see what the stuff is used for in the first place.

This may or may not be what I did. I'm not telling unless you ask nicely. :P


and for crying out loud --
EVERBODY, JUST REVIEW WHAT POWERME SAID

I'm already reviewing the stuff he said about the silicon refining -- as I think that some of the clues he left us may lead us to further understand John bedini's amp-crystals, from EFTV 18 (Transmutation.)

He has already given you all the answers that I can give you. He is the one giving me solutions -- and I read the same thing you guys have. The only thing I've done here has used a little bit of elbow grease, took notes, and thought about it for a little while. This is something everyone can do on their own.

Even through a very busy schedule -- I could still do this -- I personally think that if anyone desires a goal badly enough, they can loose a few hours of sleep to it.


Also -- I will not spoon feed anyone here after that. Powerme has given us enough answers -- I hope this is an example that you guys just need to run with it, and test stuff youself.

The above was to get us all on the same page/on track. Aside from this you guys -- just think about it. I'm not going to think for any of you.

Onwards,
==Romo

[petar113507]

Let's get a move on....

You guys, I am really uncomfortable with spoon feeding you guys like that. To me, that stuff falls under the domain of "thinking for yourself".

I meant no dis-service to powerme's efforts to have us think for ourselves. I feel that further prodding you guys would basically be handing you all the fruits of my labor. (Not like I did very much anyways, powerme did most of it...)

I felt that I needed to get the ball FINALLY rolling -- as nobody seemed to be picking up on these hints.

If anyone's griping about "lab costs" -- the running total was 22 Dollars, for my masonry jars, and I still have plenty jars left over. If you're broke and you REALLY want it to happen -- you'll find a way.

If we're going to change the world, we need to start getting this thing on the MOVE, PRONTO.


Come on -- the cat's out of the bag.

==Romo

[petar113507]

Lastly, before I go offline to do my fat stack of papers -- You don't need a fancy lab.

You just need to use what will work.
Be creative -- There's a reason he was saying that.

==Romo

[altrez]

well this thread is getting way to wacked out for me. Good luck guys I really hope you all do well.

I might start a new thread based on well documented methods.

Take Care,




-Altrez

[FRC]

Another HHO system

I found this vid:


of a truck powered with only hydrogen from water. There was a whole serie of vids that explained how to build the cell, tune the tubes etc, posted by FutureEnergyConcept youtube user. Where are they???
I can't find them anymore..

Here is another HHO system. There are many out there. Sorry to see Altrez go,
I would be happy to get as far as he has. Ultrasonic with plasma spark, you could still do something with that.

@Romo, thanks for describing your procedure, very helpful. Hope someone gets these zinc crystals working.

FRC

[FRC]

Yahoo Group

There was a Yahoo Group for what I mentioned in my last post. This method for HHO sounds good.

Yahoo! Groups

FRC

[ewizard]

petar113507, Thanks for all you are doing here and for your extensive posts above. I'm still interested but sometimes projects like this have to take the back burner to other more pressing projects for me. I did manage to get some of those E3 spark plugs powerme mentioned and put them in my car as the car was very badly overdue for a plug change.

Keep up the good work and please don't spoon feed us but if you get some noteworthy results please post them. I think that is one of the biggest problems here for most people who have been around a while. They have seen so many promising ideas, spent $$$ and lots of time only to end up with no good results. Some because of scams and others because no one could figure out things that were kept secret as well as other reasons. So when someone new steps in the door here and does not show any videos or pictures or other evidence other than words on the screen it is less motivating for people to try things which take their time and money. While it was my sense that powerme is giving us good and honest info I think it would be hard for many people to understand where he is coming from unless they have done a lot of reading in metaphysics, new age or the alternate thinking realms.