Help for Stanley Mayer HHO generator

[Giorgos]

Hello all,
I am working on a Stanley Mayer system to produce HHO, that i plan to demonstrate in my site (like all of my projects). I am little bit confused with the inductors after the step-up transformer (the ones after the secondary coil of the step-up transformer) I am working on 2 types, toroidal and bifilar.

Toroidal:
I have 2 different coils, NOT on the same core, each one with same wounds (200 rounds each), with 24 AWG wire. The toroid core is 1'' diameter

Bifillar:
I still have not one make yet, because i have found several different designs, and i do not know which one to follow. More specifically, i have seen one type that has both coils turned with the same direction, and another type that has the coils turned in opposite direction.

Please tell me the proper setup that you used. Toroid, bifilar with both coils in same direction, of bifilar with coils turned in different direction?

Regarding the electronic circuit:
I have design myself a very flexible electronic circuit (that i will post details in my site), with 4 op-amps and 2 comparators, based on a previous circuit that i had designed some time ago, which you can find here:
Voltage controlled PWM Generator

If my fuel cell works, i plan to publish an automated controlled circuit with PIC micro, as i am very experienced in using microcontrollers. I will publish full details as i always do with my projects.

Your help will be highly appreciated. Thanks
Giorgos

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

I have read many, many replication attempts, and all Stan's patents. He did things different in different patents, and then if you watch the videos, some of what he actually used in real life is different from what he even showed in the patents.

Many people have tried different configurations, and I've yet to see one that has been proven to be better than the other based on others work.

Some people use a bifilar configuration, where the 2 windings work WITH each other, and some use one that work against each other (like an ANTI-inductive wire wound resistor)

I propose a combination of the two.

Take a look at Tesla's patent for an electromagnet, with the bifilar pancake coil.

If you start at the outside and wind counter-clockwise (or clockwise, I'm just giving an example) to the center, like shown in the patent, and then for the second wire, you start at the outside again, and wind in the opposite direction, then you will accomplish two things:
-the electric field (inter turn capacitance) will work in the exact same way as Tesla showed, storing an equal voltage between each turn, and allowing the greatest rise in voltage
-the current will be blocked, because the magnetic field oppose each other

Obviously, it will be impossible to wind the two wires in between each other, like the patent, so you could do two pancake coils, one on top of the other. OR you could use alternating layers around a core, making sure that the inductance and capacitance of each winding is even to the other.

What I would really suggest trying is: do layers of alternating pancake coils, as I described, and place them inside a toroid, and then place a ferrite rod through the center of the pancakes.

These are just my ideas, and I'm sure someone else will have things to say based on their personal experimentation.

[Giorgos]

Thank you SuperCaviTationIstic.
Have you ever had yourself a working WFC working without electrolysis? Do you think it is efficient? And realistic? I mean, is is just a good experiment, or it can actually produce work? I was thinking that, If the WFC works efficient enough, i could use it to produce hot water for the heating installation. What do you think? I've read that burning raw H which is passed through laser LED can have a flame between 1500 and 5000 degrees Celsius.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

Thank you SuperCaviTationIstic.
Have you ever had yourself a working WFC working without electrolysis? Do you think it is efficient? And realistic? I mean, is is just a good experiment, or it can actually produce work? I was thinking that, If the WFC works efficient enough, i could use it to produce hot water for the heating installation. What do you think? I've read that burning raw H which is passed through laser LED can have a flame between 1500 and 5000 degrees Celsius.

Giorgos,

I'm so scatter-brained, and pulled in all directions that I haven't built much of anything, because I just don't stop reading and move on to experimentation.

But because of that, I have gained much of the knowledge of the energy inventors.

Stan used resonant cavities, so get yourself an old microwave, and open it up. Familiarize yourself with the workings of the transformer, high voltage diode, capacitor, and magnetron (the resonant cavity). Understand the dangers involved before you do that though.

Stan was basically making his own resonant cavity, similar to a magnetron, and using extreme voltage potential to run it, with hardly any current, and ran it in cold-cathode mode.

Take your magnetron, and cut it open. I think they are made of copper, so it may only work for a little while in water until it begins to oxidize, but it will work. Cut one end of the magnetron off, so the entire wall is left, but it is an open cavity. Connect your high-voltage VIC type transformer of your design to it, and make it so both magnets can still form the field around it; you will have to find a way to support one of them since you've hacked the magnetron up. Fill it with water, and shield it so microwaves/radiation is not release. You now have a Stan Meyer STEAM RESONANT CAVITY

I'd say, take a small television, and get to the h.v. lead that goes to the CRT, and the ground wire. Those are your supply poles to run it.... then attach them to your VIC current blocking, voltage increasing coil setup. Then the output of that goes to the magnetron.

This will ONLY get you steam, because you're not ionizing the gasses and removing electrons, but it's a good start, and HIGHLY efficient. This in its self is over-unity.

MAKE SURE you read about how to properly shield microwaves/electromagnetic waves that this produces. It won't be in the same frequency range as the microwaves originally, because you're not moving electrons around in it, now you're moving water ions, so the mechanical resonance in the water will be at a different lower frequency.

[joe 2]

meyer madness

hi

i have a low voltage working version of stans vic, planning to build real thing. I have written a pic microcontroller prog. for running it but my pic sim board won't program at moment, maybe we can help each other. If interested email me bc109@hotmail.co.uk

[cody]

Ill offer some possible suggestions based on what i have researched on meyers.
It appears to me that meyers was using very high voltage resonance using the water as a dielectric between the capacitor plates in the LC circuit. If you havent watched this video, i highly suggest it.

YouTube - Stanley Meyer 1992 Interview

Looking at meyers circuit for what it is, its pretty obvious to me that its basically the same circuit used in a DC resonant charging tesla coil and is doing the same basic operation. Look at meyers schematic here P. 1-13

water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

On this page you will find some good info on DC resonant charging tesla coils as well as design formulas for the resonant charging choke.

DC Tesla Coil design

Give that a good read over to understand how the resonant charging choke works and what it does.



meyers used very high voltage(at least thats what he said) so you will need to construct the coils so that their inner turns are insulated properly and dont short out from the high voltage.

here is a guy discussing how he made his own charging choke and some tips
YouTube - Larg Tesla Coil Video 3

You will also need to figure out how to keep amp draw way down, as meyers points out. A lot of guys working with high voltage like to make water resistors, but there would be many other ways of going about this im sure. Here is some info on that.

Jochen's High Voltage Page : Resistors

I really have no idea what frequency water will disassociate most efficiently at so i have no idea exactly how you could calculate what inductance the choke will need to be to operate correctly without knowing that. However, RogerInOhio(youtube guy above) says that you dont need an exact inductance, you just need to exceed a minimum inductance, and anything over that should work.

Cody

[joe 2]

meyers circuit is not resonant, he said it tunes into the "resonant frequency" of water.

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

@Joe
No, he said he tapped into the "dielectric properties" Dielectric refers to water's balanced bipolar nature...ie DI-electric
It IS definitely a resonant RLC network! With the WFC being the capacitance.

The Water Fuel Cell is a Lord Kelvin Thunderstorm in reverse, adding voltage to moving water. It's all about water's relaxation time which is in the millisecond range. This means water will hold an electrical charge across it's lattice for a few milliseconds....This is where Stan's electron extraction circuit comes in, store a charge across a water molecule as it passes through the voltage zones then a floating positive takes the energized (further orbiting) electrons. When the electron leaves, it breaks the covalent bond...viola ionic gas! This is how voltage does the work as Stan described

Here is a nice video to understand relaxation time
YouTube - Lec 9 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 20

Electric Fields and Moving Medium!

[joe 2]

dude the vic is not a resonant circuit as in tuned to a frequency, my quote of stans waz lazy tho and not checked and i think he did mention dielectric.

the vic works over 1 to 10khz, so it cannot be a resonant circuit, one inductors main function is to multiply voltage, the other reflects electrons (inhibit current).

Maybe i am not clear on what u mean.

[joe 2]

Actually what i said may be wrong co`s with the restricted amp flow the water will act as a diaelectric haveing just a potential difference across it.
So u adjust the frequency into the vic to match the water capacitor. That could be the resonance he is on about.

Or it is the frequency into the vic that gives the max gas yield.

I need to build the full sized vic to find out.

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

Exactly joe,
This is anything but a rigid cap...a phase lock loop or a comparitor will need to be used to constantly scan and follow the ever shifting resonant freq. To control the gas yield he adjusted the voltage. The gate is used to stop the flow in, and at the same time trigger the eec. I have a prototype that uses a cd4047b and an optocoupler in series with the gate trigger. This way when the gate pulses the circuit off, it also turns the opto on for my isolated eec.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

With all due respect, not one part of that post was accurate and a magnetron is dangerous for many reasons. Don't go there.

That white/pink insulator if broken can kill you by destroying your lungs. Next, a MOT is deadly and when you are playing with water, even worse. No aspect of that post is going to be helpful or safe.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I still stick to what I say.... STAN WAS USING RESONANT CAVITIES.....

he didn't just come out and speak in the accepted way most scientists do, because he was self-taught for one, and because he was trying to protect his intellectual property.

LIKE IT SAID, DON"T DO IT UNLESS YOU ARE AWARE OF THE DANGERS.... if you can shield it, and you take it apart without putting yourself in danger, it's NOT A PROBLEM... I didn't even say to use the MOT.. and NO WAY is a MOT dangerous if its not plugged in.

ALL MOST ALL THE INVENTORS WE TALK ABOUT DO IT REALLY SIMPLY THEN DISGUISE IT!

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

@Poppy
Do you believe yourself?
If you had a real grasp on meyer's system (electrical phenomena in general), you would know that a "composite" wire of ss with a coating of copper would be an huge waste of time (maybe u do know that?). All ion flow would take place in that outer coating. Especially in a high freq resonant ungrounded transformer. I can prove it....
YouTube - Pure voltage No amperage + Skin effect
That video is an astable 555 directly pulsing an ungrounded 5kv transformer. In resonance (or any high enough freq) the energy doesn't even travel through the core....uhh skin effect?
Furthermore that video proves bedini,bearden, et al are truthfull. That "cold energy" is directly proportional to resistance...unlike "hot energy" which is inversely proportional to resistance.
The use of stainless steel wire was to further reduce amp flow, by using SOLID stainless wire, cuz it has high resistance but still induces a voltage magnetically.

P.S. I took this very setup into my physics professor, all he had to say is "that shouldn't be happening"...are u more qualified than my physics professor to explain how that works conventionally?

[powerme]

meyer's only practical system was his spark plug water injection.

electrolysis with stainless steel is useless as ss has high conductivity but high restivity, it will restrict current flow and you end up with wasted energy as heat. ss is on good for making resistors.

i have devised a way to make water fuel combustible by atomizing water into fine molecules and liberating atomize water into HHO with crystals harvesting surplus ultrasonic waves from the transducer, the system runs cool and can run a 6kwh genset with 280 watts power consumption.

this system is non electrolyte electrolysis and is portable to all ICE.

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

Electrolysis is the forced ejection of electrons during ionic transfer of charges (current)

Now this part is subtle.....ITS NOT ELECTROLYSIS!

If you need proof, look up Herman P. Anderson, retired Physicist and NASA/Skunkworks consultant.
He did it in 1997 with injector plugs, he could not market the device because it emitted "soft x-rays"...but, since he was a Physicist consultant he was able to use the device.

He said it was a form of Radiolysis....hmm "atomic nuclei decay" Stan spoke of...hmmmm, ions...hmmm

The yield of hydrogen resulting from the irradiation of water with β and γ radiation is low (G-values = <1 molecule per 100 electronvolts of absorbed energy) but this is largely due to the rapid reassociation of the species arising during the initial radiolysis. If impurities are present or if physical conditions are created that prevent the establishment of a chemical equilibrium, the net production of hydrogen can be greatly enhanced.

This sound at all familiar to u?