Separator cell from HHO-research.com.au build by thedude

[IndianaBoys]

8X8 GSC Gas Splitter Cell

Found it!

He has a few videos posted related to this design. Starts out with a smaller version 5x5 and moves up to the 8x8.

GSC = Gas Splitter Cell

8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

YouTube - 8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

8X8 GSC Construction Method
Videos Series
Part 1

He is also in the process of building a spectrophotometer to analyze the qualities in the separated gases.

He speaks/shows of it in the 4:50 mark on the below video:

8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp
YouTube - 8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp


Ash has a course up at Panacea that is copyrighted to Bill Williams:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/5X5...upport_Doc.pdf

IndianaBoys

[thedude]

great fabrication techniques!

Found it!

He has a few videos posted related to this design. Starts out with a smaller version 5x5 and moves up to the 8x8.

GSC = Gas Splitter Cell

8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

YouTube - 8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

8X8 GSC Construction Method
Videos Series
Part 1

He is also in the process of building a spectrophotometer to analyze the qualities in the separated gases.

He speaks/shows of it in the 4:50 mark on the below video:

8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp
YouTube - 8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp


Ash has a course up at Panacea that is copyrighted to Bill Williams:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/5X5...upport_Doc.pdf

IndianaBoys

Awesome links IndianaBoys. Always love videos that show the building techniques. I watched his whole playlist. He knows what hes doing. Sometimes the simplest processes can yield the greatest rewards. I really enjoy seeing people who are willing to share what they know, whole-heartedly, and don't mind making easier for others, the methods they had to plow the fields to learn. Thats the spirit of evolution.

I'm going to likely continue to purchase my cell materials from hho-research.com.au for now , simply because they are not asking for undo service fees. If you look on their site, you'll see the prices are not unfair. I'm really not sure why they advertise "no international sales". I wouldn't be reluctant to contact them to try and order if your so inclined. As long as they will help me, I want to deal with them if possible. They've given me a fair shake and were helpful when i was having trouble.

In time I'm going to be purchasing a Plasma cutter and a welder, just bought a router and drill press and electric generator and i'm in the middle of building a garage to put it all in. I plan to do more fabricating in the future as time permits and I can devote myself more full time to my pursuits.

Thanks again IndianaBoys. Good to hear from ya.

[thedude]

A shout out to the Galt Network on Justin.tv

Hey all you guys from Galt network on Justin.tv. lol Thanks for bringing me my Alex every day. !! you rule.

I'd love to see if people think its theoretically possible generate enough straight Hydrogen to run a 322cc combustion engine that produces up to 6600watts.

Considering the volume (sorry need to do some LPM measurements really) of gas i'm able to generate at aprox 150watt input in my first video in this thread, surely a volume 4 times a large (4 cells) for 600watts would be enough to run that generator. I mean, really... ok, lets get crazy and say I have 8 cells for 8times as much volume of gas for 1200 watts, now lets play it safe and say i have to somehow end up spending an equal amount in transforming the source current from AC for a total of 2400 watts. Surely that much gas would run the generator? Doesn't that leave me with a pretty big window of free wattage on the 6600watt generator? I'm sorry for posing this question without real volume figures involved, but i will do a follow up with more info as time permits. And i'm speculating using the fact that i have a small flame that i can boil a pot of water on at 150watts(heavy measurement too) already.

This is not even considering the GEET reactor that is poised to increase efficiency. Once again a theoretical improvement.

Anyway. Its a lot of speculation, until it can be done. Sorry for rambling around. :P

[ashtweth]

Great work man, yes Bill has done well, Reg and Peter also, those tanks are Huge but we can get them down to fit in a car .

Nice work guys, we have Bills cell and Peter's/Reg on the way with some emissions test, we can get the scrubbers and sizes down to fit in a vehicle and will post all details when the cells are done.

Thanks Dude

[thedude]

thanks Ash!

Heya Ash! Nice to hear from you!

Yes, I'm really enjoying the separator cell. I'm going to add another cell of the same size, possibly going to order two more of them today. We'll see what the bank account tells me. :P

I'm not trying to sell anyone here, thats for sure. I have no affiliation with hho-research at this point, aside from being a customer that they have chosen to serve. I hope that they don't mind that I've posted their cell design to some degree here on these forums. I did so after it was mentioned to me, by them that they "wanted to get the base line model out to the public". That seemed to be my ok to share my images and what not.

Well off to the daily grind to bash some carpet into place. Me thinks the hydrogen business would be more fun!

[Jetijs]

Hi there.
I also made such a cell, but I used a crapy membrane material, it is a fabric for wind canceling. The cell works, but the efficiency is very low. Gasses are separating, but I will need to put the plates closer to each other, because now they are at 4mm distances, I will reduce this to 2mm and also increase the plate count. On a standard hho cell I can get a great current flow (20A) at already 2.5V per cell, with this cell I need loads of electrolyte and around 4V per cell for anything decent to bubble up, so smaller gaps between plates should work, also I think that membrane material is not the best thing to use. Another thing, What if I wanted to fill up a balloon with hydrogen alone? Wouldn't it be a problem? Because as the pressure build up in the hydrogen bubbler top, it will displace the water in the bubbler causing it to rise and overflow at the oxygen side. But if I close the oxygen bubbler output, the oxygen side pressure will increase causing the oxygen leech through the membrane and contaminating the pure hydrogen gas. How to solve this? Seems that one way could be to constantly monitor the pressure in poth bubblers and adjust it so that it is equal, but there must be a simpler way. Any ideas?

[Jetijs]

Another idea to solve this problem would be using an outlet on each bubbler of a tiny diameter say say 0.5mm2 for oxygen and 1mm2 for hydrogen. This should make the bubbler pressure go up and be maintained equal at both bubblers. It would be just like putting your torch exit directly on top of the bubbler. And since the bubbler pressure would be greater than the pressure needed to inflate a balloon, it should inflate it without raising electrolyte level in the other bubbler or making the hydrogen leech back to oxygen side via the membrane.
What are your thoughts?

[thedude]

Another idea to solve this problem would be using an outlet on each bubbler of a tiny diameter say say 0.5mm2 for oxygen and 1mm2 for hydrogen. This should make the bubbler pressure go up and be maintained equal at both bubblers. It would be just like putting your torch exit directly on top of the bubbler. And since the bubbler pressure would be greater than the pressure needed to inflate a balloon, it should inflate it without raising electrolyte level in the other bubbler or making the hydrogen leech back to oxygen side via the membrane.
What are your thoughts?

Heya Jetijs. Great build you have there. I love your double bubbler/main water tank combo!! Capital thinking my friend. Yours was one of the very first pancake stack-style hho cells I'd ever seen in a thread here at energeticforum. I knew you would be in on separating the gas. I know hho-research is using silk-screen nylon. Reg over there sent me some newer material for my next two cells that i'm currently building. This nylon can be heat shrink tightened to create a consistent membrane to gap displacement. I really don't know who his supplier is on the new material yet but I just sent him an email and I will respond here ASAP.

Quote from Reg at hho-research.com.au, "We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option". Personally i'm not used to the input power i've been using since i built this cell, so at this point i'm not much of an expert. I will say that i'm very pleased with the efficiency i'm observing. I'm able to light my torch for as little as 50 watts.

With regard to the pressure back flow issues. Yes, i have what you describe almost exactly on my oxygen exhaust (goes out of its bubbler back up into the top of my main tank). Its basically a threaded hex cap that i drilled a small 1.5mm or so hole in. Pretty much just what you were describing. It seems that the more current and gas you create the less this outlet restriction is required. I do find that there is a issue with the oxygen tank over flowing. ( i think it has to do with vacuum in the 2H to 1O ratio). I run my oxygen bubbler outlet back out the top into the Main water feed tank to collect it for that reason. I'm not positive but i believe much of the back pressure can also be cancelled through a series of back flow check valves such as these. Hydrogen Enthusiasts Shop - Oneway Check Valve 10mm hose I say this as i am able to plug my oxygen over flow vent that i run through and exhaust out my main water feed tank will pressure a long way up when i plug it, and blow out a pressurized stream of oxygen upon release. I'll be looking into this more though, as I have had the inclination to bottle the hydrogen gas and input flow pressure is going to have to be calibrated upon in order to do so. Perhaps it helps to distribute the accumulation of pressure through a segmented chain of non-reversable chambers, so to speak. Does that make any sense? :P

hho-research recommends a check valve in place on every tube line connection, for the record.

Currently i'm assembling 2 more cells using HHO-research.com.au now machine cut gaskets that are much narrower and efficient. Most importantly they expose a much larger area of stainless plating with which to fracture water upon.

Made a video of using water to boil some water. Not very good one. going to do it again and add it later. I did it though. Seemed cannibalistic in some strange way. :P

[regpye]

Punching membranes

I'm guessing you would use a double sided iron template that you could clamp down on the stainless, or nylon silk sreen membrane, or rubber gasket, that would have the hole alignment for you to use a hand punch to pound through the material with a hammer? :P

If that was indeed the method you used on the stainless Tech, was there much flaring of the steel at the hole? Would be pretty easy to tap flat any way i would bet. I would love to be able to manufacture my own cells. The cost of the equipment to do so has given me pause. Good suggestion Teckno, i never thought of using that technique on stainless.

The nylon membranes are quite strong and slippery, I know that hho-research.com.au use a clamped template to punch the gaskets and they are the ones claiming the membranes to be difficult to cut. I'm certain theres a way to do it with out a laser CNC. The material has very strong tensile strength. Given its slipperiness and small thickness, its possible that the nylon could get pushed through the hole unless your punch is extremely tight. I'll ask Reg or Peter at hho-research and see if they tried a punch.

I'm going to compile a short list of questions for them so i'm not contantly contacting them repeatedly, and report back.



Your welcome Ron. Thanks for your excitement.

Ya its great Ron! I've been striving for this ability for some time now too. Its really got me thinking around the clock on the different possibilities. I have a couple tesla turbines that i might hook up as steam driven electric generators at some point. Only one of them is really big enough to do anything productive. For now my main goal is the serving the hydrogen to the 6600watt electric generator with a GEET reactor. I'm guessing the whole thing should be together by the end of the month. I'm mainly just picking up small parts and welding another adapter for my muffler now. I think another cell will go on the list before the generator will be running on hydrogen by itself. Who knows though. A real GEET reactor really reduces the fuel consumption by a whole other measure. But that is another story for later.

Reg here;
We did try punching the membrane material, and it can be done if you get some plumbers cement as used for joining PVC pipes together and place it where the hole needs to be, let it dry and then punch with a sharp wad punch with a block of wood beneath. Takes a while, not as accurate, and is OK for one off membranes. If anyone has a cell design that they are working on and need membranes, we will design the CAD file for you and supply the material and also laser cut the membranes for you. Cost works out about $6 each plus whatever the postage will be.

[ashtweth]

Hi there.
I also made such a cell, but I used a crapy membrane material, it is a fabric for wind canceling. The cell works, but the efficiency is very low. Gasses are separating, but I will need to put the plates closer to each other, because now they are at 4mm distances, I will reduce this to 2mm and also increase the plate count. On a standard hho cell I can get a great current flow (20A) at already 2.5V per cell, with this cell I need loads of electrolyte and around 4V per cell for anything decent to bubble up, so smaller gaps between plates should work, also I think that membrane material is not the best thing to use. Another thing, What if I wanted to fill up a balloon with hydrogen alone? Wouldn't it be a problem? Because as the pressure build up in the hydrogen bubbler top, it will displace the water in the bubbler causing it to rise and overflow at the oxygen side. But if I close the oxygen bubbler output, the oxygen side pressure will increase causing the oxygen leech through the membrane and contaminating the pure hydrogen gas. How to solve this? Seems that one way could be to constantly monitor the pressure in poth bubblers and adjust it so that it is equal, but there must be a simpler way. Any ideas?

Heya Brother, okay we have found in Reg's cell (what the dude has )
this IN A CAR APPLICATION is working the best with a slight vacuum, this is required and also has to be a gravity feed system for the scrubber, what application are you thinking of, for car , hating or balloon only for STORAGE?

Hmm okay for balloon maybe we would need a little vacuum for this h mm, maybe ill try and use Reg's cell for this too try Bills or Reg's membrane bro, this is well tested

Ash

[regpye]

I'm going to likely continue to purchase my cell materials from hho-research.com.au for now , simply because they are not asking for undo service fees. If you look on their site, you'll see the prices are not unfair. I'm really not sure why they advertise "no international sales". I wouldn't be reluctant to contact them to try and order if your so inclined. As long as they will help me, I want to deal with them if possible. They've given me a fair shake and were helpful when i was having trouble.

The reason for not supplying overseas at this time is simply that we are overwhelmed with orders locally.
Overseas orders take more time and have had their problems for us with orders being cancelled after making and building due to the high cost of freight. We cannot do anything about the freight costs, and if anyone wants to purchase overseas from Australia, we will supply as long as they realise the freight costs.
We are not able to calculate the costs until the order has been packed and taken to the Post Office, due to it being calculated by destination, weight and size.
We have orders or requests coming from all corners of the World everyday, we simply cannot keep up the supply. Serious purchasers we will attend too, and anyone that has purchased our CD will automatically be looked after.

I hope everyone can understand our situation and realize the reason for our reluctance for overseas sales now. We will always try to help anyone that contacts us as we have done in the past.

[regpye]

After 6 years of deep research we have found that the wider gap on the plates works much better, particularly for the separator cell designs. If the plates are too close you will get breaching of the gases, over heating of the cell and a waste of energy.
We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option. Also we are using NaOH, 1 teaspoon per litre of distilled water and running 12V at 15 amps for best results. You can see the results at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories website. There are more than 50 videos that show all you really need to know.

[thedude]

heya Reg! Welcome to these forums.

After 6 years of deep research we have found that the wider gap on the plates works much better, particularly for the separator cell designs. If the plates are too close you will get breaching of the gases, over heating of the cell and a waste of energy.
We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option. Also we are using NaOH, 1 teaspoon per litre of distilled water and running 12V at 15 amps for best results. You can see the results at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories website. There are more than 50 videos that show all you really need to know.

Right on Reg. Welcome to these forums. It sure is great to have you here. Thanks.

As per our earlier conversation about the membranes...
From Reg.
"Many people have copied my system and made separator cells, but all have run into a problem with the membranes.
The membranes are made from a mono filament polyester mesh, 165 stands per cm.
What most people are using is cheap RipStop as bought at the clothing store. This material is multi strand and cannot ever be tightly stretched no matter what anyone says, we have tested it and it fails after a short time.
Only genuine membranes will work effectively using the correct material. Another point is, the membranes are made 2mm smaller than the gaskets all-round, that is 4mm less across the width and length. The reason for this is to allow the gaskets to seal against each other, because if the membrane is to the outside of the gaskets, weeping or even leaking will happen.
The membrane material that we offer is used in the silk screen printing trade, mono filament, polyester and made in Germany. It is more expensive than RipStop which is multi strand, made of nylon and not suitable for membranes.
For people that want to make their own design cell I have a membrane cutting service that includes the CAD file layout, supply of material and the laser cutting. Cutting by hand is very hard if not impossible to do accurately."

Once again. So glad to have you here to share.

L&L
TheDude

[thedude]

Water Boiling Water Video

Made a fun video of using water to boil some water as promised. Used time lapse to show the whole process. Wanted to do a bigger volume, but while wanting to record visual of the glass container was sacrificing efficiency.

Just for fun Water Boiling Water video by TheDude

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

@thedude

have you tried making a cookie-cutter of the shape you want to cut out of the mesh, heating it up, and melting thought the polyester fabric?