Separator cell from HHO-research.com.au build by thedude

[thedude]

Heya Super

@thedude

have you tried making a cookie-cutter of the shape you want to cut out of the mesh, heating it up, and melting thought the polyester fabric?

Sounds like that might work. I'm currently not custom cutting any membranes at all, but good suggestion for those that are. Even a good soldering iron might do the trick. I'm not certain to be honest as I do not have any to practice on ATM. PVC adhesive stiffens the material making it easier to cut if used carefully around the area to be cut, if using knife or hole punch.

Heres another link to my "Water Boiling Water" video. Since it was on last message of previous page. :P Shameless.

I have 2 more 11 plate cell kits from HHO-research.com.au that are complete with new heat shrinkable membrane. I'm currently prepping and sanding the stainless plates, have one more day of working my regular job and then nearly 2 weeks to devote to projects. Woo hoo!

[regpye]

@thedude

have you tried making a cookie-cutter of the shape you want to cut out of the mesh, heating it up, and melting thought the polyester fabric?

That method has been tried and it does work as long as it doesn't get too hot. Getting it too hot will make the edges of the mesh roll back and become a bigger hole.
A soldering iron can also be used, but is a bit messy. I would only use these methods for a quick test piece so I didn't have to make a CAD file and put it through the laser.

[thedude]

The NEW and IMPROVED Separator Cell!

Hello all.

Really excited to have some new images and a new video to illustrate some of the improvements hho-research has made on three different parts of their cells. End plates made of Acetal plastic are more durable and crack resistant, new machine cut gaskets are narrower ( revelling more of the stainless and titanium plates ) and membrane material is now heat shrinkable to help maintain consistent membrane to plate displacement.

Home run HHO-research! These cells work great. In the second video of this Separator Cell project- Hydrogen - Oxygen separator cell build by thedude pt2 , I show the amperage difference between the cells. I couldn't be happier. Sorry still no LPM measurements in this video. I'm still actually just breaking in the new cells and will be tidying up the connections (setting up cells in a line and removing most of the gas tubing you see in this video). I have yet to max out my amperage on my supply.

Here are some pics of the new Hydrogen/Oxygen Separator Cell.


slipping together. Its a joy!

Drilling and tapping end plates.


They sure do run cool though, when you consider the actual amps that are being spent within the cell. These puppies could run all day at the levels in this video.

[thedude]

straightened things up alot!

Hello all.

Ya i'm on holidays so, I'm cashing in on the time to focus and get some things done on this project. Also started using some of the tools in premiere pro so my audio and lighting should be a bit better. Started playing with the dual camera feeds as well. Enjoy!

Hydrogen - Oxygen separator cell build by thedude pt3
In this video, I have tidied up the entire set up. These cells can daisy chain together in a very convenient manner. My amp measurements in part 2 were incorrect on the first cell as one of the active stainless positive plates came disconnected. I remeasure these cells together in their parallel power hook up bridge with quick connect couplers to the supply and each individual cell.

Next video i'll definitely have LPM float meter and most likely be feeding hydrogen into my generator! Look out!

L&L
TheDude

[regpye]

3rd video

Hi Darcy,
my you have been busy. I have put the additional videos on the website as part of your entries to the competition, the 3rd video is already up as well.
Peter has another one up and is working a few more, showing different ways to assemble the cells.
Another guy contacted that wants to send one in as well, but is having a leaning curve on video editing, he hasn't done it before.
Should start getting interesting as more are added. Looking forward to the rest of your experiments, you have a nice clean flame, almost transparent (means nearly pure hydrogen)
All singing and dancing

[thedude]

Things are moving right along.

Hi Darcy,
my you have been busy. I have put the additional videos on the website as part of your entries to the competition, the 3rd video is already up as well.
Peter has another one up and is working a few more, showing different ways to assemble the cells.
Another guy contacted that wants to send one in as well, but is having a leaning curve on video editing, he hasn't done it before.
Should start getting interesting as more are added. Looking forward to the rest of your experiments, you have a nice clean flame, almost transparent (means nearly pure hydrogen)
All singing and dancing

Hi Reg. Thanks for putting up my videos at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories .

In my second video there were issues with my contact with the positive hook up on my first original cell while i was doing the break in. I should have just had it right out of the loop anyway. But that is why it was showing a lower amperage draw in comparison to the newer cells. In reality the smaller gaps on my first cell does draw about between 20-30% more current than the newer models. However, that cell would heat up in about 3-4 hours of operation with 160watts input. I was never really concerned but bolts were getting hot. ( I now have infra red thermometer, so i will have proper temp measurements ).

I ran out of KOH and decided that i would try Sodium Carbonate (hot tub PH-up). I observed much less gas production as well I noticed that there was a impregnated content of oxygen within the hydrogen gas stream. Or at least that is what I'm guessing was colouring the flame yellow. It was consistently yellow flame while using Sodium Carbonate. I'm kinda new to electrochemistry and i'm doing some study on it now. Its hard to know how these chemical reactions are working within the gas we are making. I did the switch back to KOH almost immediately and my gas returned to a ultraviolet pinky-blue flame. I prefer this output as it allows me the opportunity to observe the reactive properties of a hydrogen flame. It seems to change with nearly everything that it touches. You can sit and watch as it combines with oxygen in the ambient air creating occasional little streaks of yellow on the perimeter of the flame. I believe that is what i'm seeing.

I did have a small problem and one of my quick connection leads, while intentionally unplugging and testing another cell, did slip into the opposite connection of its outlet. In other words. I did end up putting positive into my negative titanium on only one of the three cells for about 3 or 4 mins! I immediately knew something was wrong as the electrolyte began to turn yellow and stain the outlet tubing. The good news is that only that cells neg was reversed but the positives were still free of any connection. There would be positive polarity from the adjacent cell though(3" away). I shut it off and then noticed the loose connection was where it shouldn't have been, to my dismay! Since then I have changed the electrolyte to sodium carbonate (couldn't find KOH) and now back to KOH (did eventually find). However, despite my increasing my KOH to 8%, which was more than I'd been using, I'm unable to achieve the same amps to volts ratio which i was working with prior to the reversal. I now don't seem capable of driving my amps up without exceeding the 3volt to plate gap rule. I know its not necessarily a rule, but I agree with there being a loss in efficiency at these voltages once you exceed it. Perhaps I'm being too concerned and just need to turn it up anyway. I don't like yellow tubing and I don't want to over drive my supply either. I do realize that every little detail needs to be checked before firing up production from now on. Might even put up a check list.

Reg do you have any suggestions with regard to undoing my titanium plate reversal?

[thedude]

hitting the big time

Hello everyone and anyone willing to notice. :P

Recent developments have lead me to the next logical step in my project and my investment has increased once again. Although I do not have a lot of money, somehow money seems insignificant with comparison to the development of sustainable energy and independence from the energy moguls. I am upgrading 2 of my separator cells to 24volt and just purchased two - SEC-2450BRM Samlex 50 Amp @ 24volt Power Supplies. I will leave my original cell at 12 volts and will be pulling apart my two newer and bigger cells and adding twice as many Neutral plates gaskets and membranes. These two cells will each have a dedicated 24v@50amp supply as well as their own 50amp PWM. Believe me theres gonna be a lot of hydrogen now! I'm guessing it will be a couple weeks before the plates, gaskets and membranes as well as PWM's arrive from Reg in Australia and the power supplies, which are here in Canada can be shipped. Canada's postal service has gone "postal"! Some strike or something. So who knows.

During my recent tests I've struggled with different electrolytes and have been having a study in electrochemistry. I began with KOH ( Potassium Hydroxide ) and ran out while doing lots of tests, draining and refilling a lot and was unable to find locally. I then switched to Na2CO3 ( Sodium Carbonate ) which is typically for PH-up in hot tubs. Sodium Carbonate worked quite poorly compared to KOH. All along i've been missing the advice from Reg and Peter to use NaOH ( Sodium Hydroxide ) specifically. KOH was the previous top choice at one time I believe. However, Reg reports that there are possible issues with the advent of titanium active plates and possible blackening of that particular metal with the use of KOH. I will be pulling apart my 2 new cells to upgrade them to 24volt soon and will inspect them for any discoloration. I'm looking forward to trying NaOH and will report my findings here on that soon. So far my observations are that when using a sodium based electrolyte that the hydrogen flame becomes coloured yellow in reaction to the sodium. This does noting to affect the purity of the hydrogen from what I understand, however I do enjoy how KOH does not do this and it is easier to observe the reactive nature of a hydrogen flame. A little yellow discoloration in the flame is a small price to pay for better production though, so i'll be using NaOH if it brings better quantities of gas.

In testing with my 322cc electric generator (6600watt output), I have removed the carburetor and injected the hydrogen as close to the cylinder as possible with 50 % of the intake closed to airflow for most of my tests that have come close to starting. So far my production would seem to be insufficient to continuously run the motor, however i have the motor thumping slowly on pull start. This could be simply an issue with improper intake so I'm thinking of ordering a propane gas conversion kit for the generator now and will need to look at a possible pre-pressure chamber to match vacuum draw through the regulator that might include a gas purge/burner mechanism perhaps. This may not be necessary if i'm able to achieve a constant throttle level that is able to satisfy the demands of high current draw with regular gas flow for now. At some point i will need to address the issue of bottling and storing. Pressurized gas would be much nicer for running through a regulator to the carburetor. Ultimately a hydride storage system would be a real permanent solution, however finances are limiting at the moment. My real goal at the moment is to run the generator in a easily demonstrable manner, utilizing on demand production of gas to better illustrate the excesses that are available. So, I'm open and available to any good suggestions as to how and best deliver this pure hydrogen to the combustion chamber.

Thanks to all.

[IndianaBoys]

Hydrogen Car and Multi-Fuel DVD by Roy McAlister

thedude,

You are following a great track!

Maybe this will be of help.

Do you have:

Hydrogen Car and Multi-Fuel DVD
by Roy McAlister

banner

The other guy that talks in the video does become irritating but Roy's info is invaluable.


I copy and pasted this area as it relates to what you are working through at the moment:

On The DVD You Will See and Have Explained:

Hydrogen and gas manifolds, metering and control valves and hardware, injector nozzles and orifices.
Pressure gages and regulators and more. The exact pressure to regulate to out of the tank, the exact
pressure for you to start with at your manifold and valves.

** Warning ** LET ME WARN YOU ** Warning **
You are trying to make it HARDER than it is. You DO NOT need to start with
$1000 hydrogen injectors (each) and $2000 controllers and complicated hardware.

You can start with a lawn mower engine, the above hardware (~$25)
and a 80 cubic foot 3000psi used SCUBA dive tank ($50 to $100)
This SAME technology system *WILL* work on your car … only you probably will use more injectors.
See that 'tube' between the fingers above? That is a hydrogen gas metering tube and we show you WHERE to put it in the engine… It is the same tubing used as a needle for giving a horse an injection.

We REALLY REALLY want to emphasis that you SHOULD convert a small single cylinder engine FIRST ( like a 5hp engine ).
Make it a generator with an alternator or convert a Go-Kart, a Moped, A Quad, A motorcycle.
This will be the cheapest, most effective and easiest way to then learn and gain the confidence to convert your personal vehicle

[thedude]

I appreciate the advice.

thedude,

You are following a great track!

Maybe this will be of help.

Do you have:

Hydrogen Car and Multi-Fuel DVD
by Roy McAlister

banner

The other guy that talks in the video does become irritating but Roy's info is invaluable.


I copy and pasted this area as it relates to what you are working through at the moment:

On The DVD You Will See and Have Explained:

Hydrogen and gas manifolds, metering and control valves and hardware, injector nozzles and orifices.
Pressure gages and regulators and more. The exact pressure to regulate to out of the tank, the exact
pressure for you to start with at your manifold and valves.

** Warning ** LET ME WARN YOU ** Warning **
You are trying to make it HARDER than it is. You DO NOT need to start with
$1000 hydrogen injectors (each) and $2000 controllers and complicated hardware.

You can start with a lawn mower engine, the above hardware (~$25)
and a 80 cubic foot 3000psi used SCUBA dive tank ($50 to $100)
This SAME technology system *WILL* work on your car … only you probably will use more injectors.
See that 'tube' between the fingers above? That is a hydrogen gas metering tube and we show you WHERE to put it in the engine… It is the same tubing used as a needle for giving a horse an injection.

We REALLY REALLY want to emphasis that you SHOULD convert a small single cylinder engine FIRST ( like a 5hp engine ).
Make it a generator with an alternator or convert a Go-Kart, a Moped, A Quad, A motorcycle.
This will be the cheapest, most effective and easiest way to then learn and gain the confidence to convert your personal vehicle

Thanks IB! I've seen some of Roys videos but not this in particular I think. This is a relatively small engine 322cc on my generator. I'll enjoy seeing their method of intakes and adapters. Thanks for the lead on this.

Although I know that you copied Roys text and was not meaning it to be a warning to me, at this point i'm not too interested in sizing down my generator motor. I've purchased this one with the calculated intent to run it strictly on hydrogen and it has never touched a drop of gasoline. I will make it run, it nearly already has. There is a distinct possibility that other systems are using HHO gas as not too many people are working with pure hydrogen at this time. But I guarantee you that he'll have some great ideas for delivery of the gas to the chamber. I'm going to get a look at his latest stuff. Great help IB.

I'm switching gears and i'm starting to move my 12 volt cell off to my Suzuki Side Kick so I'll have some pictures and videos to go with this modification.

Thanks again for the suggestion. I'll read and watch and report back.

[thedude]

You've been makin H2! The Suzuki Side Kick video

Hello all.

Been working away at setting up my first original separator cell in my 1997 Suzuki Side Kick JX 1.6L and getting it on the road. That modification went very easily and i put the cell and electrolyte tank and Hydrogen bubbler in the most convenient location, set up in such a way that it will be very easy to take in and out during very cold Manitoba winter months, right on the passenger dash. Its bound to draw some attention, but what ever!

Here is a link to Hydrogen - Oxygen Separator Cell in Suzuki Side Kick(1of2) and Hydrogen - Oxygen Separator Cell in Suzuki Side Kick(2of2)

and a bunch of pictures






No one said i was pretty. :P lol



More to come when my 2 new 24volt @ 50amp radio transmitter tower amplifiers and separator cell plate upgrade for 24volt (double the neutrals) comes in for my other two separator cells. As well as 24volt 50amp rated PWMs from hho-research.com.au. will be coming in within the next two weeks.

For those of you who want to sing along with the intro on the video. Here are some lyrics!

(sung to the tune of AC/DC - You Shook Me All Night Long.

An H2 - Gas machine!
It'd keep the motor clean!
It was the best damn mod that I'd ever seen!

PWM's inside, telling me no lies.
Knocking me out with that sharp gradient rise!

Take a moment to share,
H2 is easy to bear.
Blow a hole through your firewall and your already there!

And the circuit was shakin,
the water was breakin,
my mileage was racing and we were making H2!

Been there all a long!

H2!

You've been there all a long!

Ya your makin H2!

(Just screwing around)

L@L
TheDude

[thedude]

Mileage report

I've made another new video to report my mileage and talk a bit about some of the details concerning my set up in my Suzuki Side Kick.

I pulled my narrow gap cell in the Suzuki apart and inspected and cleaned the plates. Thats the one that i was using KOH in initially, and had also had an accidental cross up of the input terminals. I saw brown oxidization in the tubes and indeed there was a lot of build up nearer to the bottom of all the plates, but particularly on the oxygen side, of a brown/grey/black sludge. So, I re-sanded and reassembled and using only NaOH now as this seems to completely eliminate any build up from occurring. Gas quantity has nearly doubled and now carrying a torch tip in the Suzuki to demonstrate a relatively big flame for those that aren't quite believing that its a useful gas. I think the mistaken cross over of the connections, may have caused much of the brown build up. But the grey/black stuff, could likely be the product of the KOH. At any rate. My gas flow is now absolutely full of finer bubbles for much smoother and consistent flow and every thing is clean.


Here is a picture of the entry to the air intake.
I've been experiencing some hesitation on rainy or very humid day. (all the time lately) And I suspect that it is due to heavy fuel mixture to air ratio. Might want to lean it up a bit.
The intake is pretty far back from the fuel injection right now, as can be seen in the photo. I am going to order a high flow air intake filter and see if I experience and performance gains or mileage increase. I suspect that i will, but we'll see.

[ashtweth]

Hi Darcy, be careful with the LCD display the sun might melt if its on the dash my friend, also using a PWM, i suggest experimenting with sweet spots for millage. If only we could make it so the Hydrogen would not be there at IDLE, be less strain on the alt and HP etc

Ash

[thedude]

thanks Ash.

Hi Darcy, be careful with the LCD display the sun might melt if its on the dash my friend, also using a PWM, i suggest experimenting with sweet spots for millage. If only we could make it so the Hydrogen would not be there at IDLE, be less strain on the alt and HP etc

Ash

I feel like i'm living in the summer outback at the moment Ash. Been 30+ celsius here and there mixed in after some of the most humid weather we've ever seen. Tropical actually. :P
I'll keep an eye on the dash. would hate to see that kind of heat up there. I've kept copys of "The Beautiful Truth" DVD in my holder up there with out too much issue.
You have that crazy Australian sun. I've never been there, would love to, but crocodile Dundee movies sure look hot. :P lol JK

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Bill (vipond50 on youtube) for not giving him more credit for his contributions toward the development of the separator cell. I've been dealing with Reg and Peter nearly exclusively. They always gave Bill his credit for his contributions in my discussions with them. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i was of the impression that it has been a relationship of sharing that has been mutually beneficial. At any rate. If i'm using his developmental technology in any way and not giving him proper credit, I'm sorry. Its really important to me to be able to make my own strides and i'm completely aware that i'm riding on the back of others who have gone there before me. Hopefully i can make my own developments and earn some respect. For now I apparently "have a lot to learn" and need to "do the math", so i will get back to the bench and do my best.
Thanks for the prod in the butt Bill! lol

Great to hear from you Ash.
L&L
Darcy

[jonaspandrade]

step by step

Hello thedude's Avatar
thedude

I like your project, wanted to develop a cell equal to yours, you could send me step by step, these menbranas gap between all the cells?
I live in Brazil, taken place in the city, and would like to save fuel.
Please help me and send pictures to my email the details of the membranes? My email.
coisas.e.coisas.do.jhonas @ gmail.com
Sincerely, Jonas.

[www.hydrogenpower.be]

Hello thedude's Avatar
thedude

I like your project, wanted to develop a cell equal to yours, you could send me step by step, these menbranas gap between all the cells?
I live in Brazil, taken place in the city, and would like to save fuel.
Please help me and send pictures to my email the details of the membranes? My email.
coisas.e.coisas.do.jhonas @ gmail.com
Sincerely, Jonas.

the membranes are simply made of nylon
you can use any nylon fabric that you can get in the fabric store