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  • Another Stan Meyers thread H2+O2+N2

    So from all the info I gathered so far, I have come to a very promising concept of how he did all this. Last year I experimented a lot with ionicing N2 +hho and various catalysts, nothing worked at all and no wonder. I had a typical hho cell which produced h2 and o2 combined. The idea was to ionize these gasses along with nitrogen. Obviously I could not use a plasma arc or corona as that would just explode hho and turn it into water. So I tried a high power UV lamp of the category C. But it failed to ionize anything. But now I saw those hydrogen separator hho cells which separate the H2 and O2. This is a whole onther story. So lets assume that we now have thre separate sources of gas - H2, O2 and N2. H2 and O2 come from the cell and the N2 could be taken from air using nitrogen separation membranes. So, we take the hydrogen and mix it with nitrogen and have a mix of H2 and N2 now. Now we put it through a stron plasma arc. If no oxygen is present, we will break the molecular bonds and will now have H H and N N - atomic gas mixture. When the influence of the plasma arc will be gone, they will try to recombine back into molecular form. From these two gasses NH3 and N2H4 could most possibly form, NH3 is ammonia and the N2H4 is hydrazine - both are slow burning fuels, but NH3 needs a catalyst to be able to burn. Anyway, we now have a greater volume of gas than the cell alome produces, because for every three hydrogen athoms we have one nitrogen atom extra in case of ammonia and for every two hydrogen atoms we have 2 extra nitrogen atoms in case of hydrazine. This should definately work if strong enough plasma arc is used, because it is already known that hydrogen can be turned in atomic state using plasma with a high thermal energy yield when it recombines like in this picture:

    I forgot the inventor of this, sorry.
    Also nitrogen can be made atomic by using plasma, this is why they caution you to breath the ari around strong plasma arcs, this is not because the ozone, but because the nitrogen in the air is being converted to atomic state along with the oxygen and when they recombine, they can form some poisonous nitrogen oxide variations. So we know that plasma can "crack" both these gasses.
    Next, we do exactly the same with the oxygen outlet - mix it with nitrogen and then put this mix through plasma arc. Now the same process happens, the gasses are cracked down to atomic puzzle pieces that tent to recombine together after the plasma influence is gone. Here with a bit of luck some nitrogen oxide will form, preferably N2O, which is a great booster and catalyst for burning fuel. This means that for every oxygen atom we now have two extra nitrogen atoms thys further increasing the gas volume.
    After these processes we can safely mix the ammonia/hydrazine and the nitrogen oxide together forming a strong, slow burning fuel mixture that does not need any plasma sparkplugs or other boosters. This is then fed to the combustion chamber and we get the engine to run.
    Ordinary hho cell wont work, you need to separate the gasses. This seems straight forward and very logical to me. I talked this over with some chemists at local university and they agree that this could work, at least chemically, the question is how efficient this process is. I have heard about guys who could run their engines with hho almost completely, with very little gasonine added, if so, why couln't it be done as I described? Engines are not ment to be run on hho which burns too fast, they need a slow burning fuel. With this method we acieve both - the increased fuel gas volume compared to pure hho and making the fuel burn slower.
    So to test this, all I need is to make a small plasma chamber with two gas inlets and one outlet. I arranged a test in local solid state physics institute where they have all the needed gasses available in pressure tanks and where they also have a gas analyzer. If any trace of NH3 or N2H4 will be seen in the output gas, that means that the principle works and we need to test how efficient it is. Also based on my experience with hydrocarbon cracking I know that if you use your liter of gasoline to full extent and get all the energy possible out of it, you should be able to drive 200mpg with your average car. Because if you crack your fuel into gas state (propane, butane, hydrogen and methane) prior of burning it in the combustion chamber, you wont have any heavy hydrocarbon chains that could be left over unburned. So if you can drive 200mpg by turning your liquid fuel into gas, then why should the same efficieny not be attainable using the process I described? This is also why hho does not give you any improvement in mileage if you use it on cars that run on propane/butame mix - because there is simply nothing to help being burned, it burns on itself fully
    So what do you think about this?
    Jetijs
    It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

  • #2
    This sounds brilliant.

    Although I definitely lack the knowledge to contribute to this line of experimentation at this time, I do have at my disposal as pure 100% hydrogen on demand that I can get. I would like to be able to independently try to replicate parts of these experiments to help validate for you if possible.

    I've watched your work for a long while now Jetjis, and this process sound pretty sophisticated. So i will be following along and doing my own electrochemical schooling along the way. Let me know if there is any way i can help.

    This is exciting!
    L@L
    EnergeticTube.com - Where technology goes Live!
    ETaffairs.com - Your Portal Here on Earth

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks man!
      Your experience with separator cells will be very valuable if the concept will prove to work.

      Thanks,
      Jetijs
      It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder how much efficiency reduce when the output need to be separated.


        You never try to mix HHO output with ionized air jetijs? How about using GEET to ionize the HHO with ambient air? NH3 is less at 400 degree than at 200 degree celcius IIRC.


        NH3 can burn extremely well if mixed with H2 and NOx. literature exist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Lyne Aatomic Hydrogen Furnace

          Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
          So from all the info I gathered so far, I have come to a very promising concept of how he did all this. Last year I experimented a lot with ionicing N2 +hho and various catalysts, nothing worked at all and no wonder. I had a typical hho cell which produced h2 and o2 combined. The idea was to ionize these gasses along with nitrogen. Obviously I could not use a plasma arc or corona as that would just explode hho and turn it into water. So I tried a high power UV lamp of the category C. But it failed to ionize anything. But now I saw those hydrogen separator hho cells which separate the H2 and O2. This is a whole onther story. So lets assume that we now have thre separate sources of gas - H2, O2 and N2. H2 and O2 come from the cell and the N2 could be taken from air using nitrogen separation membranes. So, we take the hydrogen and mix it with nitrogen and have a mix of H2 and N2 now. Now we put it through a stron plasma arc. If no oxygen is present, we will break the molecular bonds and will now have H H and N N - atomic gas mixture. When the influence of the plasma arc will be gone, they will try to recombine back into molecular form. From these two gasses NH3 and N2H4 could most possibly form, NH3 is ammonia and the N2H4 is hydrazine - both are slow burning fuels, but NH3 needs a catalyst to be able to burn. Anyway, we now have a greater volume of gas than the cell alome produces, because for every three hydrogen athoms we have one nitrogen atom extra in case of ammonia and for every two hydrogen atoms we have 2 extra nitrogen atoms in case of hydrazine. This should definately work if strong enough plasma arc is used, because it is already known that hydrogen can be turned in atomic state using plasma with a high thermal energy yield when it recombines like in this picture:

          I forgot the inventor of this, sorry.
          Also nitrogen can be made atomic by using plasma, this is why they caution you to breath the ari around strong plasma arcs, this is not because the ozone, but because the nitrogen in the air is being converted to atomic state along with the oxygen and when they recombine, they can form some poisonous nitrogen oxide variations. So we know that plasma can "crack" both these gasses.
          Next, we do exactly the same with the oxygen outlet - mix it with nitrogen and then put this mix through plasma arc. Now the same process happens, the gasses are cracked down to atomic puzzle pieces that tent to recombine together after the plasma influence is gone. Here with a bit of luck some nitrogen oxide will form, preferably N2O, which is a great booster and catalyst for burning fuel. This means that for every oxygen atom we now have two extra nitrogen atoms thys further increasing the gas volume.
          After these processes we can safely mix the ammonia/hydrazine and the nitrogen oxide together forming a strong, slow burning fuel mixture that does not need any plasma sparkplugs or other boosters. This is then fed to the combustion chamber and we get the engine to run.
          Ordinary hho cell wont work, you need to separate the gasses. This seems straight forward and very logical to me. I talked this over with some chemists at local university and they agree that this could work, at least chemically, the question is how efficient this process is. I have heard about guys who could run their engines with hho almost completely, with very little gasonine added, if so, why couln't it be done as I described? Engines are not ment to be run on hho which burns too fast, they need a slow burning fuel. With this method we acieve both - the increased fuel gas volume compared to pure hho and making the fuel burn slower.
          So to test this, all I need is to make a small plasma chamber with two gas inlets and one outlet. I arranged a test in local solid state physics institute where they have all the needed gasses available in pressure tanks and where they also have a gas analyzer. If any trace of NH3 or N2H4 will be seen in the output gas, that means that the principle works and we need to test how efficient it is. Also based on my experience with hydrocarbon cracking I know that if you use your liter of gasoline to full extent and get all the energy possible out of it, you should be able to drive 200mpg with your average car. Because if you crack your fuel into gas state (propane, butane, hydrogen and methane) prior of burning it in the combustion chamber, you wont have any heavy hydrocarbon chains that could be left over unburned. So if you can drive 200mpg by turning your liquid fuel into gas, then why should the same efficieny not be attainable using the process I described? This is also why hho does not give you any improvement in mileage if you use it on cars that run on propane/butame mix - because there is simply nothing to help being burned, it burns on itself fully
          So what do you think about this?
          Jetijs
          The device pictured here is William Lyne Atomic Hydrogen Furnace found in his book Occult Ether Physics.

          Tim
          Last edited by chasson321; 06-27-2011, 03:42 AM. Reason: spelling

          Comment


          • #6
            which Eric Dollard just recommended in another thread (the book)

            Looks good Jet
            "Once you've come to the conclusion that what what you know already is all you need to know, then you have a degree in disinterest." - John Dobson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sucahyo View Post
              I wonder how much efficiency reduce when the output need to be separated.


              You never try to mix HHO output with ionized air jetijs? How about using GEET to ionize the HHO with ambient air? NH3 is less at 400 degree than at 200 degree celcius IIRC.


              NH3 can burn extremely well if mixed with H2 and NOx. literature exist.
              Effciency of the separator cell should be roughly the same, there is almost nothing lost.
              What would hho mixing with ionized air acomplish? IMHO nothing, how could it. H2 and O2 are stable molecules, mixing them with air that is just been ionized wont do anything. You need all the gases turned into atomic state and then you can hope they will combine with each other turning into something usefull. And as I already said - ionizing hho is a bad idea, it just burns and leaves you with water. Those two gasses should not mix with each other prior to plasma, just with nitrogen.
              It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
                Effciency of the separator cell should be roughly the same, there is almost nothing lost.
                What would hho mixing with ionized air acomplish? IMHO nothing, how could it. H2 and O2 are stable molecules, mixing them with air that is just been ionized wont do anything. You need all the gases turned into atomic state and then you can hope they will combine with each other turning into something usefull.
                The idea is H2 with NOx may burn better than H2 with O2.

                Did you decide that after trying or you would never try because you think it would be useless?

                Comment


                • #9
                  But a hho will still be H2 and O2 and adding nitrogen oxide shouldn't help much, because hydrogen has already more than enough oxygen to recombine in fast explosion.
                  It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
                    But a hho will still be H2 and O2 and adding nitrogen oxide shouldn't help much, because hydrogen has already more than enough oxygen to recombine in fast explosion.
                    Some chemical reaction happen faster / slower with a little catalyst even when the amount of reacted input remain the same.

                    I think document bellow give many info on flamability of N, H, O and C mix.

                    http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/pu...ts/flimits.pdf





                    I don't understand most of the content but I think a mix with ionized gas can change results greatly.
                    Last edited by sucahyo; 06-28-2011, 05:17 AM.

                    Comment

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