Can someone explain what type of electrolyte is this?

[HotHHO]

HHO- Testes de comparação Kho x THP.wmv - YouTube

[blackchisel97]

HHO- Testes de comparação Kho x THP.wmv - YouTube

THP - tetrahydropyran, used in Li batteries.
KHO should be (KOH) - potassium hydroxide, strong base (opposite to acid) electrolyte.

V

[thedude]

KOH potassium hydroxide

I used KOH for the first hydrogen/Oxygen separator cell for about 3 months. I then disassembled my cell and saw the same sort of build up as in video.
HHO-research.au.com directed me to go with sodium hydroxide and I do not see the same yellowing of the water or build up on my plates. I can confirm that it stays much cleaner, I still have not found any need to pull apart my cells since i switched.

I can't help but feel that there is a much better electrolyte out there that would not have as many by-products and might not break down as easily. Electrochemistry is not my strongest suit. Any chemists here that can make a really good electrolyte suggestion would be appreciated. Something that is not as caustic or create chlorine would be great. For now NaOH - sodium hydroxide is my best suggestion. Although i'm sure there are other opinions on the matter.

Thanks
L&L

[OrionLightShip]

THP - tetrahydropyran, used in Li batteries.
KHO should be (KOH) - potassium hydroxide, strong base (opposite to acid) electrolyte.

V

I don't see any references to THP in lithium batteries. What I do see is THF.

I sent the guy an email and he sent me this:

Orion, which are substrates of potassium treated chemically and electrically in order to promote a pure electrolyte, specifically for use in industrial hydrogen generators. Taking the advantage of not being dangerous to handle, not damage the plates and be ecologically perfect. Thank you for your interest, if you need to have it at cost!

From that response, I believe he is talking about KTP or potassium TriHydrogen Phosphate.

Or, it could actually be THP which is tetrahydropyran.

Since Lithium reacts with THF it is possible that potassium metal also reacts with THP in a similiar fashion.

I have sent another email asking him to clarify which is actually correct.

Orion

[kcarring]

tri?

K2HPO4 potassium dihydrogen phosphate?

[blackchisel97]

I don't see any references to THP in lithium batteries. What I do see is THF.

I sent the guy an email and he sent me this:

Orion, which are substrates of potassium treated chemically and electrically in order to promote a pure electrolyte, specifically for use in industrial hydrogen generators. Taking the advantage of not being dangerous to handle, not damage the plates and be ecologically perfect. Thank you for your interest, if you need to have it at cost!

From that response, I believe he is talking about KTP or potassium TriHydrogen Phosphate.

Or, it could actually be THP which is tetrahydropyran.

Since Lithium reacts with THF it is possible that potassium metal also reacts with THP in a similiar fashion.

I have sent another email asking him to clarify which is actually correct.

Orion

THP has been researched and patents were filed back in '70.

V

[OrionLightShip]

THP has been researched and patents were filed back in '70.

V

Understand. Is THP water soluble enough to give the needed conductivity? I'm thinking no because it is an organic but I don't have my chemistry reference books handy.

Must have H20 and fairly good conductivity to have efficient production of HHO.

@kcarring

There are both KDP and KTP. KTP would at least fit the THP part of his claims. (Tri Hyd Phos)

The return email is no more help. What ever it is...he just wants to sell it and make money I think.

here is what he said:

friend i do not know. what I am saying is that everybody's loving it!

I was interested in the answer, maybe someone else can find out. Perhaps babblefish doesn't work like expected but I think he is avoiding or he simply doesn't know. Good luck.

Orion

[blackchisel97]

Understand. Is THP water soluble enough to give the needed conductivity? I'm thinking no because it is an organic but I don't have my chemistry reference books handy.

Must have H20 and fairly good conductivity to have efficient production of HHO.

@kcarring

There are both KDP and KTP. KTP would at least fit the THP part of his claims. (Tri Hyd Phos)

The return email is no more help. What ever it is...he just wants to sell it and make money I think.

here is what he said:

friend i do not know. what I am saying is that everybody's loving it!

I was interested in the answer, maybe someone else can find out. Perhaps babblefish doesn't work like expected but I think he is avoiding or he simply doesn't know. Good luck.

Orion

Orion, Strongest electrolytes - with best ion conductivity are sodium and potassium hydroxides. THP is quite old idea and I don't have any recent updates. All I remember is that is was patented for use as some kind of solvent in Li metal batteries. Also, my knowledge in HHO technology is limited. I never had a chance to explore or experiment in this field. Trying to get an honest answer from the salesman isn't the best way imo.

V

[Jetijs]

The bigest mistake people make IMHO is using tap water along with KOH and NaOH. I have used both of these electrolytes for years without problems, but I also used pure distilled water - always. Tap water has much dissolved minerals in it and this corrodes the ss plates very fast, might also be the cause of the gunk. I never had gunk in my cells, just a color chane of the plate surface - that is all.

[thedude]

The bigest mistake people make IMHO is using tap water along with KOH and NaOH. I have used both of these electrolytes for years without problems, but I also used pure distilled water - always. Tap water has much dissolved minerals in it and this corrodes the ss plates very fast, might also be the cause of the gunk. I never had gunk in my cells, just a color chane of the plate surface - that is all.

Yes. I believe that this IS actually the root of my brown/black build up. I was using spring water from a local supplier and KOH when i had trouble. Since i have used de-ionized water (made for car batteries) and switched at the same time to NaOH. After which i have seen literally no build up at all in the last 5 months or so.

Jetijs is right. I was laying the blame on my use of KOH in error. The water source and minerals contained would make much more sense as the reason i experienced build up.

I'm going to test with out electrolyte all together and see how i make out. For some reason i just never have.

I'd like to apologize for making misleading statements about KOH and i will be testing with de-ionized water with it as well to make some observations to confirm.

[kcarring]

The bigest mistake people make IMHO is using tap water along with KOH and NaOH. I have used both of these electrolytes for years without problems, but I also used pure distilled water - always. Tap water has much dissolved minerals in it and this corrodes the ss plates very fast, might also be the cause of the gunk. I never had gunk in my cells, just a color chane of the plate surface - that is all.

I agree with you 100% there. I think a lot of people have some kind of idea that an electrolyser ought to run on any kind of water, tap water, slough water, urine.. whatever.. where they got this I do not know... perhaps because Stan Meyer sort of insinuated that back in a promo video... and you know, if you had a reverse osmosis pre-filter, it's probably true LOL... however... on this note...

I fired up my unit that is scheduled for rebuild, today, hasn't been running over 7 months, electrolyte is over 1 year old... and not a flake of anything. Mind you, I run low concentration on this unit, but 100% agreed, there is nothing in mine, but distilled. It's far to easy to buy or make distilled water, before use, and HHO production uses so little water to begin with, anything else is a compromise to your investment as far as I'm concerned.

Uploaded my lowly build LOL , it's ok, but as discussed, there were things I definitely did wrong, won't do again, will do differently ... this unit was a replication of my first unit purchased froma guy named Ardentscientist. With a couple of changes. She's going from 12V to 110 this time around... Delvis11 style.

HHO - 12V Electrolyser - After Sitting 7 Months Full - About to Rebuild - YouTube
-still uploading-

[kcarring]

I converted my first, Ardentscientist bought unit to 110V, but it got stolen from me before I could fully test it, which was very disappointing, because I am still not sure if I had the plate number right. It was 61. I have a hard time understanding the ideals of this process, if you have 110V, and your rectify, then divide by your plate number, etc. you'll end up with your gap voltage, BUT.. it would seem that will all change again given your electrolysers load, electrolyte concentration... it confuses me.

[thedude]

Negative potential charge is cleaner by far IMO

I think a lot of people have some kind of idea that an electrolyser ought to run on any kind of water, tap water, slough water, urine.. whatever.. where they got this I do not know... perhaps because Stan Meyer sort of insinuated that back in a promo video

I have tested using radiant negative potential charge on electrolyzer with straight tap water and did not experience build up there either ( or so little that it was barely noticeable ). I've hypothesized that if your using cold negative vacuum generated current that you will not see as much decomposition of the minerals inside the H2O based on the tests that i ran a couple years ago. Also keeps the water much cooler of course. This may be part of the reason Stan declared this in one of his demo vids. Positive ion flow has the greatest effect on creating the brown sludge in my limited experience. I'm still using positive Ion but my PWMs are pulsing across the negative in my current setup.

Kcarring, i was unable to view your last vid just so you know. Maybe still processing perhaps?

[kcarring]

Kcarring, i was unable to view your last vid just so you know. Maybe still processing perhaps?

I think so. Should be up now. Been watching your stuff. Very cool. I want to get into Stan Meyer HHO too, one day, but... the fact of the matter is, I'm not the brightest freakin bulb in the pack... I had to build conventional to get a grasp on what the heck the difference would be.. if I were to see it... and I'm glad I did, because I am learning a lot. My HHO work halted when I realized that I didn't know enough about electronics to do what I wanted to do.. in the first place, but I now understand at least 500% more than last year, can build a PWM, almost am at the point of getting coils to resonant frequency.. so many tiny steps, you know? I do believe in Stan Meyer though. I believe 100% he nailed it. I follow Russ Gries, Dave Lawton, others... it's the future. Brute force separative still has its merits too, it's not like there is no one out there (Walt Pyle, for instance) who hasn't mastered separative electrolysis / solar hydrogen storage. It's all good. Cheers

[kcarring]

* a note on Stan Meyer Technology.

Anyone who has ever built a wet cell, can attest to this:

Wet cells suck. The output sucks, the current leakage and loss is tremendous.

So once you know that, feel that, see that...

and then...

You see Stan Meyers cell in action, with his estimate of energy in...

You quickly realize:

He did not build an electrolyser. You can't even really call it that. It is an entirely different beast. The fact that it looks like a wet cell system is the end of the similarities.

The thing I do not understand is this.

If you read a lot of classical theory, like on Keelynet for example... one ultimately reads about resonant frequencies, the similarities to tuning forks etc.

Ok fine.

But, it i smy belief that what you are attempting to do, could be greater equated to Dr. Stiffler's work.

He is not setting up the self resonant pattern.

He is setting up the spatial resonant frequency.

What is the spatial resonant frequency, and specifically which harmonic that will allow the introduction of outside energy into the cell? The whole cell. Not the harmonic resonant frequency that would chime the bell, so to speak. The spatial energy component as pertaining to the system, as one big capacitor.

Sorry for my lack of scientific terminology, but I think you get my point / idea.