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  • #16
    More...

    Thanks Jason,
    I think after re-reading your last couple of posts, the two triggering system are different. The one I referenced does, as you say, solely rely on the out-put of the pulser circuit, to trigger the transistors.
    With this system there is no fast way to determine the sweet spot running speed (resonance) of a particular setup that I know of (I'm sure there is another way) or that Lee showed, other than having a rotor over the coil running and adjusted to the sweet spot and then directly adjusting the pot on the pulser to that particular speed.

    Basically the motor control puts a very small pulse through the coil at a curtain frequency and activates the trigger coil into a forced resonate state (dual oscillator)
    If this triggering system works as you say, it is a better system, in that the coil can find it's own natural impedance matching frequency.

    I once experienced this way of triggering when I moved my Renaissance RC-2A12-3 12V Battery Charger cables too close to my hooked up SSG trigger coil.
    The slow pulsing of the charger output cables activated the trigger of the coil to begin pulsing without the rotor moving. Now that I recall, your O-Scope shot above looked very similar to the output signal I was seeing on my scope.

    You have taken this concept several steps further and discovered that using a much higher frequency (above the resonant frequency speed) the coils oscillation speed will only rise to the coils natural resonant frequency.
    Bravo!

    Do you also see this natural speed as the matching of the impedances of the coil, the supply power and the battery(s) you are trying to charge? Is this assumption going to far? Have you used different sized charge batteries and seen a different coil speed for those batteries?
    Also I assume this system will work using multiple coils as long as they are the same size and configuration. Have you tried this?

    Obviously, not all of the above factor have to be perfectly matched to charge a battery. But, I am of the opinion that if the Bedini technology can be made to work well, without all the expense of hardware and rotors, it will be MUCH easier for people to build themselves.

    Thanks in advance for answering my questions.
    Sincerely
    Stephen
    Last edited by Stephen Brown; 03-25-2011, 04:36 AM.
    Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

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    • #17
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      Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:21 PM. Reason: ..............

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      • #18
        Thanks.

        I've ordered the speed control (Jaycar) 2 to 4 weeks. Will build and test upon arrival. I'm sure I will understand the circuit better after testing and will have some more intelligent questions about battery size and charge speed tuning then.
        Thanks
        Stephen

        Originally posted by N O G View Post
        Hi there Stephen
        The speed of the circuit is manually tuned by you and the impedance matching is done by how many wires you use, length,size etc (basic explanation).You determine where you want it to resonate by your tuning spots (base resistance/motor control)and the rest of the design determines how efficient it is.Different 12v charge battery sizes dosen't really effect the way the circuit behaves to a curtain extent but if you put a 50ah battery on this 20 circuit design set to charge a 26ah battery you will find you have to use a higher setting to charge the 50ah battery ,than you will find the circuit's to small and you are pushing it to hard and out of its efficient range so there is a charger size to battery size ratio (i will explain all these ratio's later).Multiple coils can be used but it becomes more complex and i don't want to go down that road for now, its best to keep it all on one coil to keep some capacitance in the coil (simple for now). cheers Jason
        Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

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        • #19
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          Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:21 PM. Reason: ............

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          • #20
            Planning the Build.....a little.

            Originally posted by N O G View Post
            Hi there Stephen
            2 to 4 weeks well thats gota suck.... yes there is alot to this than meets the eye but its quiet fun to play with once together and working. DON'T EVER disconnect the charge battery while charging with this setup cause it will destroy the transistors , you probly know this . I have made a voltage switch that can be added to turn the circuit off if the battery is disconnected but left it out of this circuit to keep it simple.If you can try to get a pot equal to or higher than 20 kohm and some mtk caps(very small) 100v rating - 68n,100n ,220n, 330n,470n,680n would be handy for later if you have to wait for parts .These will help later with tuning (its for motor control) Are you going to to build a 20 transistor setup. Cheers Jason
            Jason,
            I think the long ship time is because the controller is coming from AU. I couldn't find it in the states. I know all too well about letting the smoke out of the hardware (charge battery STAYS connected).
            I would love to add a voltage switch to a number of my setups. When you get a chance, let me take a look.
            I have several of the capacitors you reference and some 20K pots i'll begin getting my box together. I saw a great video on resonant tuning of coils. In the 2nd video he uses a boxful of different sized small caps to finely tune the coils to their resonant frequencies.

            YouTube - Coil Resonance Tutorial 1

            I have built a 20 pole monopole and am planning on building at least a 20 pole SS unit.
            I'll take it one step (coil) at a time though. The above was a 5 coil 20 pole.
            Your suggestion is to wind a single 20 (22 windings) pole coil? I like the 22 #22 wires at 22 meters. Was this based on a specific observation? If you have refined your thinking further as far as size, let me know what the next enlargement would be. I might take a crack at it. I might also try 2 coils of the same size to see if multiple coils are possible. What do you think?
            Thanks
            Stephen
            Last edited by Stephen Brown; 03-29-2011, 07:55 PM.
            Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

            Comment


            • #21
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              Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:22 PM. Reason: .............

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              • #22
                Resonance?

                Originally posted by N O G View Post
                Hi there Stephen
                I didnt realize they only sell these controllers over here in Australia . The original circuit was released in the Silicon chip mag -june 1997.Good to here you've built a few circuits ,5 coil- 20 branch circuits , that sounds like a good device to play with , ive built a few myself (heaps of fun hey), posted one similar on Bedini sg thread a while back but i carn't even remember where it is . When it comes to the coils it can become complex in certain ways (i could talk for days just on coil design). The one coil setup here builds capacitance in the coil making it more efficient .Ive made this simple for now but can be made as large single coils , multi coils and many other type systems as ive played with all of this and it works but is complex.The wire size ,length etc was chosen for a certain reason ,frequency/amp rate/how good the wires pack together.If you want to go bigger with THIS SETUP ONLY , keep to this BASIC RULE for every 5 wires you add you add another rod of ferrite to the core . example = if you wound 32 wires on one coil for a 30 transistor setup you would need 6 rods of ferrite . cheers Jason
                Jason,
                Thanks for the feedback. I will start work on the coil and the rest of the materials.
                In the mean time could you direct me to the sources that gave you the most insight on "coil resonance" and it's relationship to radiant charging. I'm familiar with the internal resonant frequency of a coil and how that is figured out. I've gone through gotoluc"s thread on the subject. Great stuff.
                http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...one-share.html
                You mentioned building capacitance within the coil. Maybe I could start there in trying to gain a better understanding of the subject. Let me know what helped you to see the radiance?
                Thanks
                Stephen
                Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

                Comment


                • #23
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                  Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:22 PM. Reason: ................

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                  • #24
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                    Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:23 PM. Reason: ............

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                    • #25
                      Some Specs?

                      Hi Jason,
                      I received the speed controller today. I'll start assembling soon. Only took 10 days from AU. Not bad.
                      Also, what size are the core, ferrite rods? They look to be around 135 mm X 8 mm. Can you give me a more exact measurement?
                      Still assembling parts.
                      What are the specs on the 7 circuit coil? You said the wires were twisted (litzed). That would be 9 wires X #22 wire, how long? How many twists per inch? Same size ferrite cores?
                      Thanks
                      Stephen
                      Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

                      Comment


                      • #26
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                        Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:23 PM. Reason: .................

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                        • #27
                          Winding?

                          Jason
                          Thanks for ferrite rod info and the good visuals on creating the 9 wire coil. It helps me if I can see it in my mind.
                          Did you create the 20 wire coil the same way (without the litzing)?
                          Walk-Off 22 wires between two posts and then start winding the coil by hand?
                          That seems like a good trick. I know when I do smaller multi-strand coils with dozens or hundreds of turns, I like to use my coil winding machine. It has a handle and I can feed the winds onto the coil just right. I have a wide coil holder that can take up to 6 separate coils feeding 1 wire each onto the larger coil.
                          But 22 wires onto the coil at once. I've only wound a 6 wire (6-filer) coil to date.
                          Could you go into a little detail and explain a bit about your winding technique?
                          Thanks
                          Stephen
                          Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

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                          • #28
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                            Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:23 PM. Reason: .................

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                            • #29
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                              Last edited by N O G; 11-15-2011, 02:24 PM. Reason: .................

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                              • #30
                                Progress.

                                Originally posted by N O G View Post
                                To Stephen,
                                Just wondering how you are going on your build.Im building another larger one at the moment to do tests . Give me a few days and ill post it here so you can have a look.cheers Jason
                                Hi Jason,
                                I've got the speed control built and am starting to assemble and become familiar with the rest of the circuit.
                                A couple of questions.
                                I see from your pictures of the speed controller that you left the provided potentiometer in the circuit and put a 1K pot in the trigger winding before the base. Where do you put the 10K pot and cap on/in the PCB for tuning?
                                I'm sure i'll have more ? as we go forward.
                                I look forward to posts on your larger build.
                                Thanks
                                Stephen
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                                Potential, is a terrible thing to waste.

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