Shocking news out of spain!!!

[ray0.e]

To day i find out that the goverment of spain made it ILEGAL to produce your
onwn energy

and its no joke!!! here is is the traslation of the artical

and it is not out the year 1930........

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Inspectors may enter without a warrant in homes that produce solar energy

[Farmhand]

Without spending a lot of time looking into the specifics of the situation in Spain,
I can say that there may well need to be more legislation passed in order to
keep the grid safe for the workers and other users.

One problem could be an influx of illegal micro grid tie inverters out of China and Taiwan.

Some of these inverters can be very dangerous both to linesmen working during
a power outage and to unsuspecting people using the grid outlets in a home with
one of these "micro grid tie inverters" without the proper compliance with the
safety regulations for such devices.

One problem is that the output of the micro grid tie inverter plugs into the wall outlet
and so most likely bypasses the regular safety switch or GFI protection,
thereby possibly allowing a person (child) to be continuously electrocuted
without tripping any breakers, safety switches/GFI's.

Here is one example that I doubt complies with Australian safety standards.
NEW 600W Grid TIE Power Inverter DC 14 28V TO AC 240V FOR Solar Panel MPPT | eBay

Safety switches PDF, you only live once.

http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=_dCN_FEHeGE%3D&tabid=216&mid=2137

If the inverters cannot be used with a safety switch to ensure the
inverter will shut of if it sees a difference between feed current and return
current. Then they should not be used.

And if the Island protection is not up to scratch for the safety standards of
the country then they ought to bring into play laws that can deal with these
very dangerous new problems.

These "micro grid tie inverter" units are selling and people are using them without telling the power company.

When you sign the contract with the power company did you read it ?

Are you up to date with the safety aspects and the actual scope of the legislation ?

Can you explain in layman's terms what the new "laws" actually mean.

We cannot just have any old hack connecting high power grid voltage
systems to the household wiring.

I think any system with no more than 50 volts in the system is fine to do
whatever with as far as I know. But wiring a house with 240v or 110v without
the correct qualifications is a recipe for disaster, and definitely a no no to
connect to the grid and feed it without telling the power company you are
feeding power back into their system.

If people must do their own household work then they ought to get training
and qualifications or stick to low voltage for the safety of visitors ect.

I think the issue of these "micro grid tie inverters" is a very serious one.

The exporters do not care about local laws in other countries, that is the responsibility of the purchaser. Buyer beware.

This problem may also extend to some newer type panels that have a small inbuilt inverter at each panel so they produce an AC output.

Cheers

[dward]

Farmhand, i looked into it. It appers that earlier in 2013 spain stopped subsidising renawables, for homeowners. Next they levied taxes and made fines the absurd amount of 6 million euros for installing solar when the grid is availible for use near by. The only exceptions are in deeply rural parts of spain where grid access is not always availible. Essentially they criminalized energy independance and decentralized production in an effort to squeeze every last dime out of the populace to pay for the grid, and spains larger austarity woes.

The measures are decrees not laws which the government can do in "emergencies." It all started when spain added new taxes to the price of electricity, in an effort, once again, to squeeze every penny from the populace to pay for their debt crisis. But the taxes were so high that buying new solar was vastly cheaper for homeowners, than paying their utility bill. So everyone jumped ship and the utilities were SOL. Hence the new tax, loss of subsidies, and criminalization. More politicans being backwards idiots.... same old same old. Btw this was a conservative, pro market government which did this. LOL... conservatards always pull this ****, no matter what country or era!

[john_g]

Here's an article from Reuters on the same subject- pretty outrageous, but Spain historically was the leader in Fascism - combine the state with the corporate sector :

Spaniards rebel against solar panel levy | Reuters

[boguslaw]

ok, what next ? Tax on water and air ? or maybe free time levy ?

[Bob Smith]

"Let me say this before rain becomes a utility that they can plan and distribute for money. By "they" I mean the people who cannot understand that rain is a festival, who do not appreciate its gratuity, who think that what has no price has no value, that what cannot be sold is not real, so that the only way to make something actual is to place it on the market. The time will come when they will sell you even your rain."
-Thomas Merton (excerpted from "Rain and the Rhinoceros")

[gene gene]

I typed "illegal to collect rain" search and found that it is in fact illegal here in many states. Some people are even doing jail time for doing so. more info can be found here-https://duckduckgo.com/?q=illegale%2...0rain&kl=us-en

[IMG]Fight back against enslavement As long as people believe their rights stem from the government (and not the other way around), they will always be enslaved. And whatever rights and freedoms we think we still have will be quickly eroded by a system of bureaucratic power that seeks only to expand its control. Because the same argument that's now being used to restrict rainwater collection could, of course, be used to declare that you have no right to the air you breathe, either. After all, governments could declare that air to be somebody else's air, and then they could charge you an "air tax" or an "air royalty" and demand you pay money for every breath that keeps you alive. Think it couldn't happen? Just give it time. The government already claims it owns your land and house, effectively. If you really think you own your home, just stop paying property taxes and see how long you still "own" it. Your county or city will seize it and then sell it to pay off your "tax debt." That proves who really owns it in the first place... and it's not you! How about the question of who owns your body? According to the U.S. Patent & Trademark office, U.S. corporations and universities already own 20% of your genetic code. Your own body, they claim, is partially the property of someone else. So if they own your land, your water and your body, how long before they claim to own your air, your mind and even your soul? Unless we stand up against this tyranny, it will creep upon us, day after day, until we find ourselves totally enslaved by a world of corporate-government collusion where everything of value is owned by powerful corporations -- all enforced at gunpoint by local law enforcement. Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html#ixzz2osMNlm sE[/IMG]

[Allcanadian]

I think everyone may have forgotten one small detail, We are the government. You see there is no such thing as "them" as a government is an entity and saying "them" is like calling a rock or a tree "them". What we are talking about is people in government and as all of you know people can be replaced quite easily especially in government.

So people in government may do stupid things but only because we let them by not speaking up. If you want a change in government then invoke that change because nobody is going to hold your hand and do it for you. I think we have entered a new era where everyone likes to talk about doing something but nobody ever does, lol, such is life.

AC

[ray0.e]

energy dibet

its all sik stuff where ever we are un this planet wat de du is illegal!!

but ok it dont suprice me any more after being a student and experimenter
of 0.energy free energy radiant energy for more then 10 years! that includes all the horrible story's that came whit it.

but i what a bit to hope full that it was a thing of the past.
and that all new clean energy will slowly come in to are lifes

but its tru politics cant do F then holding a pen and talk ****!!!!

because wat will you do wen you have a caraven whit 12v batt and you your lights ar 12v hologen that give you 30min time. what will you do?.............yes put some off or put LEDs no?

but the politic person cant even put a screw in a board of wood!!!

so debet of spain is because the have in all there tunnels and highways a overdose of sodium vapor light!!!!! you easy grow marihuana in there!!!
look for your self



but no de will not say lets put LEDS (yaya dont say a but lets are not that strong!! here CL-L340 Series : CITIZEN ELECTRONICS CO.,LTD.

so ya hope that i can call my buddys and get of this planet

[Farmhand]

OK I read this Article, Spaniards rebel against solar panel levy | Reuters

It is shocking and wrong for sure, no doubt. But the problem is squarely with the
government, what they are doing seems to go against common law, the
government would seem to be completely corrupted and useless as well as broke
and in debt. People are asking for monies to be paid for energy supplied and the
government needs to find money to pay. Taking money from solar users is wrong,
they should double the price of petrol/fuel instead and get the money needed to
pay back the debt for previous energy supplied that way.

It is good to remember that the government employees all of them right up to
the top are "public servants" they work for the people, if they do not do what
they are paid to do it is up to the people to sack them, they will not sack
themselves and send themselves to jail.

On the back of the riots that were seen in Spain before in the recent past, I
would say that they will take some getting rid of, protesting is not going to
work I don't think. It's like protesting to a shark not to eat you, pointless.

..

My suggestion is to take the panels off the roof and make the system modular, mobile
and "temporary" as in it can easily be unplugged and stacked away, not a
permanent addition to a building.

..

As many would know I like solar energy systems mainly PV, so this is abhorrent to me.

I do not see how what they want to do is not illegal, surely they cannot actually believe
they have the right to charge people for harnessing the sunshine.

In my opinion that must be a crime to try to prevent people from their right to harness energy from the sunshine that hits their property.
No different to charging others for catching rain for household use, or charging others for the wind that hits their turbines.

If people allow it it will happen. If people don't allow it it won't happen.

It's the way of the world.

..

[aljhoa]

In my opinion that must be a crime to try to prevent people from their right to harness energy from the sunshine that hits their property.
No different to charging others for catching rain for household use, or charging others for the wind that hits their turbines.

It's only fair to pay weather taxes.
HAARP is a target of conspiracy theorists, who claim that it is capable of modifying weather, disabling satellites and exerting mind control over people, and that it is being used as a weapon against terrorists. Such theorists have blamed the program for causing earthquakes, droughts, storms and floods, diseases such as Gulf War Syndrome and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800, and the 2003 destruction of the space shuttle Columbia. Commentators and scientists say that proponents of these theories are "uninformed", as most theories put forward fall well outside the abilities of the facility and often outside the scope of natural science.[3][4]
High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

[Muon]

It's only fair to pay weather taxes.

Are you saying that Spain is correct in taxing solar-energy collection in Spain?

HAARP is a target of conspiracy theorists, who claim that it is capable of modifying weather, ...[3][4]
High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

Do you think that the US Govt has the ability to exert significant weather control (by HAARP or other means)-- or not?

[Michael John Nunnerley]

The corrupt Spanish government "PP" started all that is happening even before they got into government. The whole collapse came about via the banks and the "PP" while the socialists were in power, it was all very well orcastrated, taking large amounts of money through property deals etc out of the country and so causing a collapse.

Knowing that the EEC would not let the banking system collapse, 50 billion euros was put back into the banks (to replace the money they had taken out leaving this hole). The money that was taken out of the banks is now along with the property dealers etc, in countries such as Brasil, Columbia etc where they have started to do the same.

I could go on and on with documented evidence, but it would do no good, who would listen. They are now hitting ALL the energy and services supplies as a means to cover the money that had been taken out of Government and not the Banks. Taxes have gone through the roof and wages cut by 50% on average, I have lost in three years half my wealth and I am going to get out of here as soon as I can sell my house, where I will go I do not know at the age of 63.

regards

Mike

[dward]

I think it's funny that Some people on this forum(not most mind you, but some) who are from places other than spain, automatically write as though it's their government doing it to them, in their place, which is not spain. OR that others here assume that everyone is an american and is from america. Odd.

Makes the conspiracy stuff even more obviously seen as a paranoia rather than a reality.

This is clearly a spanish problem and therefore american political philosophy does not actually have any bearing on the situation. Much like the Lincoln brigader's found out it the 1930s, The USA does not actually have any control in spain, OR desire to control spain(we already took their empire from them in 1898 remember??).

On another note, re Merton, If they won't let you store rain, well, It's sure easy enough to make it rain when ever you want it too... Heck, all you need is a tube and some water, if you want to do it simply. Even if they banned that they couldn't possibly enforce it as every open pipe, chimney, or vent becomes a potential source for a rain making device whether intentionally or not. Technically you don't even need that, your eyes alone have the power to make it rain with no additional inputs. Get a group together and you have a rainmaking society which exploits human physiology. They can try and will fail to ban that. In the war against law, in the long term the law will always loose. You just have to wait, law doesn't last forever.

If they wont' let you store it, turn the ground into a lake! But of course there is no need or desire for that.

It is my understanding that the electrical age is coming to an end, it may yet solider on for another century or two but the electrical age is not a permanent thing you know.

If they ban the energy, use a different energy source. Electricity is not the only thing we can use to heat or cool our homes, The ether, non electrically can do that too. Life does not consist of things and prohibitions of this or that thing are not impossible to work around. OFC many people of rightwing persuasion in these circles are simply looking for something to fight... and fight they will.

[interdesign21]

paranoia???

a Spanish problem ?? mind you dward
we are here (Spain) well aware of the Wall street determining influence in this crisis, and of the overwhelming pressure it exerts over our gov. (as well as the german banks).
do you think that the American gov. is free of the wall-street guidelines ??

Sure everybody is not American in this forum, but I must say that conspiracy stuff has nothing to do with paranoia, . . . what we are living here is crude reality.

cheers