Opposite Wound Coils-BIFILAR COILS - SAME THING?

[BroMikey]

This is the way wire wound resistors are made. This is both a south wound and north wound set of coils.













https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7QiI8p1gi4







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvb39SwTXBE






Does anyone understand how to specify the difference of a south wound and north wound Vs a pancake coil? This is an advanced question so I can wait for someone who understands my question to answer in more technical terms of action.

Mike

[Bob Smith]

Mike
Have you seen this? Especially pages 8 and following:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/VladimirUtkin.pdf

I'm no expert - just trying to learn - but it might help explain effects from the two configs for you.
Bob

[BroMikey]

Good Answer

Mike
Have you seen this? Especially pages 8 and following:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/VladimirUtkin.pdf

I'm no expert - just trying to learn - but it might help explain effects from the two configs for you.
Bob

@Bob

Good to have your help. I may have brushed over it like so many but I will eat the whole thing now. BRB with my conclusion.

Mike

[BroMikey]

Northsouth wound coils

PS I read down a ways and I see that a half north and a half south wound coil gives a zero and is used more for suppression.

Mike

[Ernst]

No

They are two completely different things.
In the NS coil, you try to create 2 opposing magnetic fields, thereby reducing the induction
In the pancake-bifilar coil, you try to increase the internal (distributed) capacitance while maintaining the magnetic/induction properties.
And on top of that you have the geometrical differences, the pancake coil "confines" (maybe not the correct word) the electrostatic field and is more suitable for impulse currents than the helical coil. This property is further enhanced by making it bifilar.

Does that help?

BTW I have a 6 month newer version of the Vladimir Utkin document, I don't know if there are many changes, but if you want it I can put it online.

Ernst.

[BroMikey]

Updated Doc

They are two completely different things.
In the NS coil, you try to create 2 opposing magnetic fields, thereby reducing the induction
In the pancake-bifilar coil, you try to increase the internal (distributed) capacitance while maintaining the magnetic/induction properties.
And on top of that you have the geometrical differences, the pancake coil "confines" (maybe not the correct word) the electrostatic field and is more suitable for impulse currents than the helical coil. This property is further enhanced by making it bifilar.

Does that help?

BTW I have a 6 month newer version of the Vladimir Utkin document, I don't know if there are many changes, but if you want it I can put it online.

Ernst.

Thanks Ernst

I been stumped thinking how to figure those two coils, still I need to give it more time. Sure put it up and maybe we can find the errors the old one has.

The thing going through my mind was Wesley, Lasersaber, Tesla, Adula and bunch more use those opposing coils and I wondered what might happen using north South coils in the bi-Toroid.

Of course this Vladimir doc states right away that it is the pancake coil that AMPLIFIES so I am wondering many things here. Here all these other names I mentioned and more are implementing the reverse wound coils along side the CW and they get some form of AMPLIFICATION.

See what I mean?

I figured a few of you well seasoned chaps had thought this through a many a time so I dropped my fishing line. I am hooked on the thought and am pulling from side to side wondering whats gonna be the best way to look at the whole thing.

Electrostatics play into it and cancellation too. I need to keep reading more on the subject and see who did what but it does seem that a net gain of zero would be the wrong way to go.

In other words if I pulsed a half North and a Half South wound coil on the same rod What would I get? A zero? Maybe self induction cancellation?

Then why is the Bi=toroid working any way it is wound? Or is it?

See what I mean , I am wondering why North South is not used in the Bi-Toroid?

Or is this the way it should be wound? See what my question is?

I am wondering like so many if we have ALL of the specific facts effecting the build. Or in others words maybe this Bi-toroid works either way but one way is better than the other.

So I figured someone might know why a south north coil would or would'nt work based on understanding the working principle of these opposing windings.

Hey Thanks Ernst for piping up, this has been haunting me for sometime and I know you must have my answer.

Mike Out.

[Ernst]

here you go.

I am not sure if I understand you, but I am a bit busy with other things now. I'll get back later and see if I can understand it then. Meanwhile can you explain (draw) your bi-toroid coil.

Thanks!

Ernst.

[sprocket]

This is the way wire wound resistors are made. This is both a south wound and north wound set of coils.

BroMikey, when you say "wirewound", are you implying non-inductive resistors? The only non-inductive resistor manufacturing info I have come across (wiki) say they use variations of bifilars - and the above doesn't qualify in my books! If you have a link to info on this, please post it.

Out of curiousity, I have just wound a iron-core 'North-South' coil and get the following inductance readings;

Winding 1: 98uH
Winding 2: 95uH
Windings 1 & 2 combined: 178uH

So definitely no inductance-cancelling taking place with the N-S coil.

I've been playing with pancake coils quite a bit recently. That video you linked to that showed the Tesla-patent bifilar as a good 'transmitter' is interesting, but it would have been much more so had the builder also showed how 2 normal pancake coils operated. This was requested in the video comments as well and although the poster actually built another Tesla bifilar coil to test a 2-bifilar combination, he never tested the obvious! In other words, before posting a video that implies that the Tesla-bifilar is better than a normal pancake-coil, you should first show how the normal pancake operates - this is never did!

I mention this because having made a few pancake-coils now, both bifilar and normal, and working with KW's (as in Gegene) I can see no difference at all between the bifilar and the normal pancake when using them as 'receivers'. if antenna reciprocity holds true for pancakes, I don't think the bifilar offers much advantage as a transmitter either.

[BroMikey]

One Up On Me

Hello Sprocket

Thanks for your in dept analysis of so many experimental tests. I am trying to figure out what this north south coil is called. I will take your word for the wire wound resistor data from the manufacturer that states they are bifilar and not this north south type.

So I appears that these half north and half south wound coils are for suppression after all.

Now onto another thought. With the dual secondary output type transformer I was thinking that maybe this would make some difference. I don't know what as compared to the bifilar.

Another way of asking this question would be that if I have two BiTT's one with this north coil for one secondary and a south wound connecting them both in series, would this operate? Or Cancel? Or what?

Can a North coil resonant with a south coil????? That is the question really.

Can opposite wound coils be made to resonant with each other?

Does it matter?

Mike

[Ernst]

This video starting 1:55 should answer your question.

Ernst.

[BroMikey]

Over unity conversion using Bifilar

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC29rHxx6Es[/VIDEO]

[med.3012]

Over unity conversion using Bifilar

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC29rHxx6Es[/VIDEO]

the speaker claim it's his study without mentioning the real author of the document he take the idea from... !!
this is a problem because he don't understand how the extended Tesla Bifilar coil work, which parameters play in energy production attraction and conversation and how they change the role ... so his work will not lead to serious power!

[BroMikey]

Hi Med

Thanks for the reply

"THE SPEAKER CLAIM"?? What is the speaker claim?

Also what do you think of the 5watt input and 100watt out??

Do you think his meter is wrong?

[med.3012]

Hi Med

Thanks for the reply

"THE SPEAKER CLAIM"?? What is the speaker claim?

Also what do you think of the 5watt input and 100watt out??

Do you think his meter is wrong?

HI,

i know you are so optimist and this is good :-) , for better results he must convert the power in main AC or any kind of voltage/frequency that can be measured correctly.

he said the idea came from his own study, after sending him some message in YouTube he turned back and he said , yes you are correct ! .... for better objectivity
he at least had to mention the real author... some website even in Chinese language mention the real author, i see this as a kind of respect no more ...



i tested this device hundreds of times and i know what we need to achieve power from it !! i asked him to explain the geometry behind the E-TBC and i told him there's no real power from his device. in my part this is important so we told the truth about what's happening !!

[tachyoncatcher]

No load measurement

Over unity conversion using Bifilar

Mike,
His output calculations are bogus. No OU from that math.