Wideband Efie

[ATechguy]

HI! My dilema, is trying to get or make an Efie for wide 02 , for those that know how to make them do i need to replace the adjustable Resister potiometer from a 200k to like 10k so i am offsetting more voltage because the wideband operates on 1 to 5 volts .?? Anybody

[Redmeanie]

Nope that won't work....Im looking into one design that Tuxair sent me a note on, and maybe this one can just be hooked up backwards and give good results. Once I have a chance to build one I will gladly supply it to you to "guinea pig" it. I will keep you posted, but with all that I have going on right now it will be a couple of weeks before I can get to it.

[Redmeanie]

Here is the link to ZFF that Tux sent me. The circuit is here and it explains the theory behind it. Im not endorsing it or saying it will work, but this is an open source project from a reputable guy.

Zero Fossil Fuel custom EFIE

[ATechguy]

RED>>M Thanks i knew i read somewhere to reverse the white and green i just have a single ER efie and i did get better results , its little early to tell i have just been idling and taking readings on my dmm, but to get reading from the 02 and ecu is it reversed since my wires are reversed?? No trouble lite yet. I thinK there is 150 mv .difference , when i rev up voltage drops.

[Redmeanie]

RED>>M Thanks i knew i read somewhere to reverse the white and green i just have a single ER efie and i did get better results , its little early to tell i have just been idling and taking readings on my dmm, but to get reading from the 02 and ecu is it reversed since my wires are reversed?? No trouble lite yet. I thinK there is 150 mv .difference , when i rev up voltage drops.

Your Readings straight from the O2 sensor should not be reversed at all. Those are true readings. The readings going to the ecu should be modified though. Im curious to build one of these type EFIE's just to try it.

If it doesn't work maybe I can look into modifying mine to get some sort of results.

[ATechguy]

I think my efie is about 5 rears old and i took it off my other vehicle , but i suspect the varible pot. broke it dosesn't do much i think the early models if you make to many turns pass their limit they break, so i wouldn't mind trying one your which i believe has been updated from the older ones . I think to get the proper reading going out to the ECU ,i thought would be reversed because i reversed the wire from 02 sensor and signal going to ecu??

[Redmeanie]

I think my efie is about 5 rears old and i took it off my other vehicle , but i suspect the varible pot. broke it dosesn't do much i think the early models if you make to many turns pass their limit they break, so i wouldn't mind trying one your which i believe has been updated from the older ones . I think to get the proper reading going out to the ECU ,i thought would be reversed because i reversed the wire from 02 sensor and signal going to ecu??

If it is that old, you should really Update it. These devices have come along way, just over the last year or so. I will let you know what I find out.

[lighty]

On the other hand there is a much more sophisticated solution

[Redmeanie]

On the other hand there is a much more sophisticated solution

Yeah I have tuned many a "Standalone" ECU. The only problem is most people can't, and Many of the states have Emissions guidelines that a newer vehicle must have its OBDII system in tact and fully functional just to pass inspection.

But by all means if you have an older vehicle, dont have emission guidelines, and REALLY know how to tune every aspect of an engines performance, A standalone ECU is the way to go.

[ashtweth]

Guys i got some advice on the fossil fuel stuff Lee found, now also i have a duel efie from him in the new 25mb hydroxy doc coming!, circuit attached, i know this guy seems to be having some success,.


"In my opinion, that circuit it too complicated for its purpose and I don't see how it can work properlly to the O2 Sensor boost the signal. The 555 constantly pulses the transformer, generating a constant signal, then the O2 sensor feeds the other side of transformer, the problem I see with this is that the O2 sensors don't pulse, they generate voltage from 0 to 1 volt, also since this circuit generates a constant voltage, it does not produce the 0 volts, some ECUs might trigger the check engine light. Also that circuit is for one O2 sensor only, would need to build 2 for DUAL.

My circuit is simpler, it is just a Dual O2 Sensor voltage Amplifier with 1 Volt output limit.If the O2 sensor voltage is 0 volts, the output is also 0 volts.
If the O2 sensor is 1 volt, the output will be one volt.any other voltages are amplified with gain adjustment (Mixture control).Claudio"

[Redmeanie]

Guys i got some advice on the fossil fuel stuff Lee found, now also i have a duel efie from him in the new 25mb hydroxy doc coming!, circuit attached, i know this guy seems to be having some success,.


"In my opinion, that circuit it too complicated for its purpose and I don't see how it can work properlly to the O2 Sensor boost the signal. The 555 constantly pulses the transformer, generating a constant signal, then the O2 sensor feeds the other side of transformer, the problem I see with this is that the O2 sensors don't pulse, they generate voltage from 0 to 1 volt, also since this circuit generates a constant voltage, it does not produce the 0 volts, some ECUs might trigger the check engine light. Also that circuit is for one O2 sensor only, would need to build 2 for DUAL.

My circuit is simpler, it is just a Dual O2 Sensor voltage Amplifier with 1 Volt output limit.If the O2 sensor voltage is 0 volts, the output is also 0 volts.
If the O2 sensor is 1 volt, the output will be one volt.any other voltages are amplified with gain adjustment (Mixture control).Claudio"

Yeah I wouldn't use it a an EFIE for a narrow band, since the one I have works superior to all the others Ive tried. But if it could solve the Wide Band Issue (Though I don't see how either) then it may be worth looking at.

Ash Im emailing you a copy of our manual so far that Tux was working on. Use it for your build and tell me if its missing anything.

[ATechguy]

Okay , so my efie caused a trouble code PO136 which is front 02 sensor so i know it is leaning out my engine occasionally i feel it sputter once in a while on a steep hill ,less power. I still don't know if this reversed efie is any good anyways it is about 5 years old . I may have to look at the circuit mentioned by Ashweth, or maybe REDMEANIE can get a revised wideband kit For me. MY other plan was to buy tuner software and make the map .02 timing changes that way seems to be the ulitmate for any fuel injected cars . Thanks

[TuxAir]

5 wire Wide Band O2 sensor wire color coding.

This is just an FYI for those of you (like me) that have to deal with a wideband O2 sensor. I got a response back from the Bosch folks about how their O2 sensors (LSU4/4.x type) are wired.

Red = Heater +
White = Heater -
Black = Signal wire
Gray = signal ground
Yellow = pump chamber circuit

Also, something I did not know is that these types of O2 sensors want to try and keep the difference between the pump chamber circuit (yellow wire) and the o2 sensor circuit (black wire) at 450mV. They do this by having the ECU alter the fuel delivery which in turn alters the amount/direction of the current in the pump chamber circuit (rich or lean). The movement of oxygen from the exhaust stream into or out of the pump chamber is what sets up this voltage differential. This would equate to approximately 2.5V on the black signal wire and 3V on the yellow pump chamber circuit wire. Remeber, Wide Band O2 sensors swing from 0V-5V.

What they did not spell out was < 450mV was rich or lean.
However, my current research seems to say that it works opposite of the narrowband O2 sensors where < 450 mV difference is lean.

This could explain why wiring an EFIE backwards would fool the ECU into thinking she was seeing a richer signal. After reading this, wouldn't a variable resistor/trimmer pot have the same effect? And the research continues.

[Redmeanie]

I have been looking into this and speaking with a buddy that tunes European vehicles. So far, Unfortunately the only option is a good Fuel Controller "Piggy Back" like the APEXI SAFC the Neo is the newest and it is very nice. Its just pricey. I have an older one here that I may hook up just to see exactly how it functions. I will let you know If I come up with anything else.

[Redmeanie]

This is just an FYI for those of you (like me) that have to deal with a wideband O2 sensor. I got a response back from the Bosch folks about how their O2 sensors (LSU4/4.x type) are wired.

Red = Heater +
White = Heater -
Black = Signal wire
Gray = signal ground
Yellow = pump chamber circuit

Also, something I did not know is that these types of O2 sensors want to try and keep the difference between the pump chamber circuit (yellow wire) and the o2 sensor circuit (black wire) at 450mV. They do this by having the ECU alter the fuel delivery which in turn alters the amount/direction of the current in the pump chamber circuit (rich or lean). The movement of oxygen from the exhaust stream into or out of the pump chamber is what sets up this voltage differential. This would equate to approximately 2.5V on the black signal wire and 3V on the yellow pump chamber circuit wire. Remeber, Wide Band O2 sensors swing from 0V-5V.

What they did not spell out was < 450mV was rich or lean.
However, my current research seems to say that it works opposite of the narrowband O2 sensors where < 450 mV difference is lean.

This could explain why wiring an EFIE backwards would fool the ECU into thinking she was seeing a richer signal. After reading this, wouldn't a variable resistor/trimmer pot have the same effect? And the research continues.

Tux,
After speaking with my buddy for about an hour this afternoon, He was certain you have a Wide Band Also. So I have been looking into an alternative for you.
Your theory on resistance could absolutely be right. After reading this link he gave me about 7 times It kinda stood out. So read it...The part we are concerned about is about halfway down and it goes into what the voltages mean and how the ecu reads them. So in theory it would be possible to trick this thing. Let me know what you think...Ive been up all night researching this thing for everyone!

Wide Band O2