John Urbanowski Amazing Radiant Battery Charger

[gotoluc]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to burst your bubble of enthusiasm here, but this system is NOT doing what is reported. I worked with John Bedini for over a year and a half, and we built a wide variety of systems similar to this. Mr. Urbanowski is at the very BEGINNING of his experiments here. His batteries are huge in comparison to the power of his charger, so the time constant of the charge-discharge cycle is DAYS. His little 4 minute snapshot of the voltage rising by a few hundredths of a volt on his digital meter is MEANINGLESS, in the truest sense of that word.

The issue here is the voltages he is showing on his large battery bank. For standard, liquid electrolyte lead-acid cells, 12.6 volts is the standing voltage of a fully charged battery and 12.1 volts is the standing voltage of a battery that is 80% discharged. So, for these huge batteries, 25.2 volts is fully charged and 24.2 is 80% dead. He is showing voltages on his digital meter down in the 23.6 volt range, so these batteries are VERY DEPLETED and their internal impedance is much higher than usual. Therefore, their response to the radiant voltage tickle they are getting from the charger is dramatically accentuated on the positive side. This does NOT represent an increase in the state of charge of the battery, as is supposed. What you are seeing on the meter is a rise of "surface tension" between the radiant push of the oscillator and the high impedance of the depleted battery.

Swapping out the transistor for a mechanical contacter will make the system work a little better, because the turn off event is more abrupt than the transistor, but over time, it will not be as reliable as the transistor switch. This minor change in the circuitry DOES NOT overcome the reality of the behavior of the battery chemistry, however. Regardless of statements to the contrary, the lead-acid battery only has ONE ELECTRO-CHEMICAL PATHWAY! Ions can either move in the discharge direction (the positive plate lead-peroxide donating oxygen to the electrolyte) or the charge direction (the positive plate depleted lead absorbing oxygen back from the electrolyte). One is an electro-deplating process and the other is an electro-plating process. At the molecular level, these processes are driven by electrostatic potentials that can only be biased in one direction at a time. It is NOT POSSIBLE to charge the run battery during discharge. You are welcome to spend as much time as you like proving this to yourselves, but the answer will be the same in the end. What you have not seen in Mr. Urbanowski's experiments is the imminent COLLAPSE of his battery voltage, which will, no doubt, be a big surprise to him. As he continues to run the big headlamp, his batteries can only go DOWN. This obvious failure of his system will also go unreported.

John Bedini is the MASTER of this process, having studied it for 30 years and published extensively on the behavior of these systems. Mr. Urbanowski is a novice and there is a lot he is still learning from his experiments, but I highly recommend that his YouTube video and other reports not be inflated as to their ultimate value.

I see nothing new in his work, as reported, except proof that he has not studied what John Bedini has already published. I applaud him for running the experiments, but his work is not some new "guiding light" to be followed.

Peter

Thank you Peter for taking a look at this and mostly the time to write the above information.

One thing for sure is we are novice at this work compared to yourself and John Bedini.

With this said, how many hours would you estimate the headlight could stay on since I do remember John U. telling me that he has had it on for something like over 6 hours.

I will call him and ask again.

Thanks Peter

Luc

[CitizenDC]

Thank you Peter for taking a look at this and mostly the time to write the above information.

One thing for sure is we are novice at this work compared to yourself and John Bedini.

With this said, how many hours would you estimate the headlight could stay on since I do remember John U. telling me that he has had it on for something like over 6 hours.

I will call him and ask again.

Thanks Peter

Luc

>> I will call him and ask again.
Gotoluc, if you can, ask him for the watt rating is of the bulb he is discharging the batteries with and possibly if he could charge and test the batteries up and see how long it takes to discharge them without using the oscillating circuit.

cheers

[Peter Lindemann]

Correct Procedure

>> I will call him and ask again.
Gotoluc, if you can, ask him for the watt rating is of the bulb he is discharging the batteries with and possibly if he could charge and test the batteries up and see how long it takes to discharge them without using the oscillating circuit.

cheers

CitizenDC,

Yes, you are on the right track here. The proper procedure is to charge the batteries UP FULL and then let them settle to the 12.6 volt level. Then discharge the battery with the headlamp to a LOADED voltage of 11.5 volts. After turn off of the system, the battery should recover to above 12.1 volts. Log both the length of time needed for the discharge and the current used by the lamp. Then charge the battery back up to full and repeat the procedure of running the headlamp and the charger simultaneously, logging the data again.

My prediction is that the second procedure will drain the battery faster. Unfortunately, there are many variables in this situation that are impossible to determine, such as the "exact charge state" of the batteries under test. The size of the batteries he is using requires a testing procedure that could take MONTHS to determine the efficiency of the system properly. One 6 hour run digging deep into the bottom reserves of a huge battery cannot produce any useful data.

Sorry,

Peter

[broli]

Well why not quite simply setup two systems powering the same kind of load, one using this circuit the other just a regular one. And seeing/measuring/hearing the difference, seems like the easiest experiment .

[byjoveoldchap]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to burst your bubble of enthusiasm here, but this system is NOT doing what is reported.

The issue here is the voltages he is showing on his large battery bank. For standard, liquid electrolyte lead-acid cells, 12.6 volts is the standing voltage of a fully charged battery and 12.1 volts is the standing voltage of a battery that is 80% discharged.

John Bedini is the MASTER of this process, having studied it for 30 years and published extensively on the behavior of these systems.

I highly recommend that his YouTube video and other reports not be inflated as to their ultimate value.

Peter

Thank you for your very experienced understanding and explanation of this system.

Peter, I find this an incredible statement

You said:
"12.6 volts is the standing voltage of a fully charged battery and 12.1 volts is the standing voltage of a battery that is 80% discharged."

can direct me to where I can confirm/read/learn more please?

~~~

My replies to your comments follow:

You said:
"John Bedini is the MASTER of this process"
- I totally agree, and we are all extremely grateful for his free to use circuits and descriptions. Without his input and years of experience, we would not be on this path now!

You said:
I highly recommend that his YouTube video and other reports not be inflated as to their ultimate value. - Yes, that is completely understood.

I am afraid we do get a little excited Peter, when someone 'discovers' a new angle, or achieves superior results with similar components that we are all playing and experimenting with.

Duplication by others and further study, may have highlighted some, or all of your statements, and I agree it is foolish to assume that a new idea, [albeit with a video as well], should be seriousy studied and reproduced before claiming that the Golden Nugget has been found!

I am guilty of taking that opinion and I apologise if it was misleading anyone, in any way.

~~~

HOWEVER Peter...

... it is clear to me that this fantastic group of solitary pioneers, including John Urbanowski and many others like him, are trying their hardest to help each other find that 'Golden Nugget'.

Many of them have families, young children, work and other responsibilities that swallow up most of their 'controlled' lives.

Yet, each of those individuals uses his own valuable FREE time to pursue the same goals, not for financial rewards Peter, but to be part of a team dedicated to finding solutions to a MAJOR problem that could help humanity and ultimately the World itself.

You said:
"I see nothing new in his work, as reported, except proof that he has not studied what John Bedini has already published."

Mr Lindemann, do you really think that John Urbanowski should read and study everything that John has released to the 'general public' in the past 30 years before claiming a discovery?

What about Nikola Tesla, Tom Bearden and all the other great individuals who have contributed an enormous wealth of understanding in this field, should he also study all their work as well?

You said:
"Mr. Urbanowski is a novice and there is a lot he is still learning from his experiments"

... And thank goodness Mr. Urbanowski is a novice, because had he the time and financial resources, he could simply be telling others what he had learnt by reading and studying other pioneers and be earn a living doing it.

Thank goodness, that I am a novice also!

~~~

Peter, previous to this response of yours, I had found your comments and knowledgeable advice valuable contributions to the understanding of a very difficult subject. But more than that, you have provided encouragement and support to everyone experimenting in this field.

Personally, I think you need to re-think your response very carefully.

~~~

[gotoluc]

Gotoluc, if you can, ask him for the watt rating is of the bulb he is discharging the batteries with and possibly if he could charge and test the batteries up and see how long it takes to discharge them without using the oscillating circuit.

cheers

Thanks CitizenDC for your good suggestion. I will ask him to do to a fix load discharge test and then recharge as Peter recommends below and retest with the same load and oscillator working.

Luc

CitizenDC,

Yes, you are on the right track here. The proper procedure is to charge the batteries UP FULL and then let them settle to the 12.6 volt level. Then discharge the battery with the headlamp to a LOADED voltage of 11.5 volts. After turn off of the system, the battery should recover to above 12.1 volts. Log both the length of time needed for the discharge and the current used by the lamp. Then charge the battery back up to full and repeat the procedure of running the headlamp and the charger simultaneously, logging the data again.

My prediction is that the second procedure will drain the battery faster. Unfortunately, there are many variables in this situation that are impossible to determine, such as the "exact charge state" of the batteries under test. The size of the batteries he is using requires a testing procedure that could take MONTHS to determine the efficiency of the system properly. One 6 hour run digging deep into the bottom reserves of a huge battery cannot produce any useful data.

Sorry,

Peter

Thank you again Peter for your reply and the test suggestion procedures needed here. This makes sense I will ask him to do to a fix load discharge test without the oscillator and calculate the time it takes for the loaded battery to get down to 11.5 volts. After a recharge he will retest with the same load but now with the oscillator working.

Something to note is that his load tests were at 12v so he was only loading one battery (marine) so one should not conclude that the power 2 batteries are involve.

Luc

[John Urbanowski]

Radiant Oscillator

Peter is correct about the difficulty or impossibility of charging the battery at the same time as draining, I believe that was why I was trying it .My only intentions here are to share my findings because they seem quite spectacular to me and worth investigating .I told Luc when I spoke on the phone the antique battery seemed weaker under load than the marine battery this accounts for some of the illusion of over unity , but today I seperated my circuit to a circuit driving set of batteries only ,and a load and recharge set of batteries. I also now am able to power my circuit from 24v to the main coil ,and 24v for the relay , two bulbs are placed in parallel, in series in the line powering the main coil and limiting current .the bulbs also oscillate and improved output to recharge batteries .All 4 batteries are of the same kind now ,I think they are 100 amp hour batteries each ,they are sealed lead acid batteries .I also bought a capacitor metalized film capacitor 1.0uf 250volt 250wvdc part number 272-1055 and replaced the microwave capacitor.This capacitor improved things ,it is faster acting and allows to sustain a higher frequency . My large metal workbench also vibrates or rings a lot while running . it becomes quite loud at times , when I place a load on the load and charge set of batteries ,I connect it at 12v on the first battery in the second set of batteries of 24volts in series.The charging wires are the two wires recieving the spikes from the relay and main coil.They go to the second battery at 24volts in the charging and load set. The oscillating circuit is now only using .370 milliamps at 24v and has a voltage drop of .01 volts per hour the bulbs made the circuit much more efficient and it oscillates stronger.I was able to duplicate a load test of 10 amps at 12volts for ten minutes,I was able to bring the set of batteries to the condition they started at in 45 minutes and the oscillator ran the whole time and the oscillator set of batteries dropped .01 volts. I have been able to replace what I have used from the load batteries and it takes very little energy to drive the circuit.Of the .370 milliamps used the relay uses .070 milliamps ,.300milliamps to the main coil . I will do more extensive testing, larger loads for longer period and much larger voltage drops , and if someone would like to come to Ohio to observe this ,they are welcome, Please try this circuit and at least give it a chance before you discredit it in your mind . I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is ,but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.Now that I have used 4 alike twelve volt batteries someone can try to replicate much easier.also the Idea of using smaller batteries will confirm results much faster. I will work on drawing my new circuit but it is basically the same except now a charge wire goes to a different set of batteries and both sets are connected at ground.And instead of powering at different voltages now we power from 24v with the bulbs for resistance.The bulbs are a 20watt 125v microwave bulb and also a 75 watt flood lite 120volts.

[glenn_aircooled]

I'm new to this type of Free Energy system. I want to make a Bedini unit.
I thought this was an exciting developement in this field.......
So I am very grateful to Peter L for bringing a Wise perspective into it.
Glenn.

[theremart]

Peter is correct about the difficulty or impossibility of charging the battery at the same time as draining, I believe that was why I was trying it .My only intentions here are to share my findings because they seem quite spectacular to me and worth investigating .I told Luc when I spoke on the phone the antique battery seemed weaker under load than the marine battery this accounts for some of the illusion of over unity , but today I seperated my circuit to a circuit driving set of batteries only ,and a load and recharge set of batteries. I also now am able to power my circuit from 24v to the main coil ,and 24v for the relay , two bulbs are placed in parallel, in series in the line powering the main coil and limiting current .the bulbs also oscillate and improved output to recharge batteries .All 4 batteries are of the same kind now ,I think they are 100 amp hour batteries each ,they are sealed lead acid batteries .I also bought a capacitor metalized film capacitor 1.0uf 250volt 250wvdc part number 272-1055 and replaced the microwave capacitor.This capacitor improved things ,it is faster acting and allows to sustain a higher frequency . My large metal workbench also vibrates or rings a lot while running . it becomes quite loud at times , when I place a load on the load and charge set of batteries ,I connect it at 12v on the first battery in the second set of batteries of 24volts in series.The charging wires are the two wires recieving the spikes from the relay and main coil.They go to the second battery at 24volts in the charging and load set. The oscillating circuit is now only using .370 milliamps at 24v and has a voltage drop of .01 volts per hour the bulbs made the circuit much more efficient and it oscillates stronger.I was able to duplicate a load test of 10 amps at 12volts for ten minutes,I was able to bring the set of batteries to the condition they started at in 45 minutes and the oscillator ran the whole time and the oscillator set of batteries dropped .01 volts. I have been able to replace what I have used from the load batteries and it takes very little energy to drive the circuit.Of the .370 milliamps used the relay uses .070 milliamps ,.300milliamps to the main coil . I will do more extensive testing, larger loads for longer period and much larger voltage drops , and if someone would like to come to Ohio to observe this ,they are welcome, Please try this circuit and at least give it a chance before you discredit it in your mind . I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is ,but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.Now that I have used 4 alike twelve volt batteries someone can try to replicate much easier.also the Idea of using smaller batteries will confirm results much faster. I will work on drawing my new circuit but it is basically the same except now a charge wire goes to a different set of batteries and both sets are connected at ground.And instead of powering at different voltages now we power from 24v with the bulbs for resistance.The bulbs are a 20watt 125v microwave bulb and also a 75 watt flood lite 120volts.

What you are claiming is very similar to a text file I have found here of early tests that Bedini has done.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf

I do hope that you have indeed found something. It appears you are on the right path of testing what you are doing. I have found Peter's criticism very sharp at times, but he is often right. I do hope you can sustain this experiment for several hours.

[Bodkins]

I'm new to this type of Free Energy system. I want to make a Bedini unit.
I thought this was an exciting developement in this field.......
So I am very grateful to Peter L for bringing a Wise perspective into it.
Glenn.

Hi Glen

try this its fun and a good starting place

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2255-imhoteps-radiant-oscillator-video.html

@John Urbanowski thanks for all the hardwork

[DavidE]

[byjoveoldchap]

I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .

It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is, but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.

Glen and John Urbanowski.

John, I am delighted to see your extensive response along with circuit/battery improvements and hear your determination to continue looking for that 'Golden Nugget'.

I seem to remember the Wright brothers had a wee bit of a challenge to face many, many years ago, yet they continued with determination against all odds and proved the 'experts' wrong!

When YOU know you are right, let no one else crush YOUR dreams.

There is no person more determined in this field of work than John Bedini. but of course he has had over 30 years of practical, hands-on experience.

BUT if John Bedini had listened to the 'experts', instead of believing in himself,
... WE would NOT be following in his footsteps today.

[byjoveoldchap]

John-Bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch

What you are claiming is very similar to a text file I have found here of early tests that Bedini has done.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf

I do hope that you have indeed found something. It appears you are on the right path of testing what you are doing. I have found Peter's criticism very sharp at times, but he is often right. I do hope you can sustain this experiment for several hours.

An excellent find Theremart, there are some really valuable Nuggets in there that should encourage even more ideas to test!

[gotoluc]

Peter is correct about the difficulty or impossibility of charging the battery at the same time as draining, I believe that was why I was trying it .My only intentions here are to share my findings because they seem quite spectacular to me and worth investigating .I told Luc when I spoke on the phone the antique battery seemed weaker under load than the marine battery this accounts for some of the illusion of over unity , but today I seperated my circuit to a circuit driving set of batteries only ,and a load and recharge set of batteries. I also now am able to power my circuit from 24v to the main coil ,and 24v for the relay , two bulbs are placed in parallel, in series in the line powering the main coil and limiting current .the bulbs also oscillate and improved output to recharge batteries .All 4 batteries are of the same kind now ,I think they are 100 amp hour batteries each ,they are sealed lead acid batteries .I also bought a capacitor metalized film capacitor 1.0uf 250volt 250wvdc part number 272-1055 and replaced the microwave capacitor.This capacitor improved things ,it is faster acting and allows to sustain a higher frequency . My large metal workbench also vibrates or rings a lot while running . it becomes quite loud at times , when I place a load on the load and charge set of batteries ,I connect it at 12v on the first battery in the second set of batteries of 24volts in series.The charging wires are the two wires recieving the spikes from the relay and main coil.They go to the second battery at 24volts in the charging and load set. The oscillating circuit is now only using .370 milliamps at 24v and has a voltage drop of .01 volts per hour the bulbs made the circuit much more efficient and it oscillates stronger.I was able to duplicate a load test of 10 amps at 12volts for ten minutes,I was able to bring the set of batteries to the condition they started at in 45 minutes and the oscillator ran the whole time and the oscillator set of batteries dropped .01 volts. I have been able to replace what I have used from the load batteries and it takes very little energy to drive the circuit.Of the .370 milliamps used the relay uses .070 milliamps ,.300milliamps to the main coil . I will do more extensive testing, larger loads for longer period and much larger voltage drops , and if someone would like to come to Ohio to observe this ,they are welcome, Please try this circuit and at least give it a chance before you discredit it in your mind . I think everyone in the forum has probably hoped for quite a long time to be able to receive this type of radiant energy .It is quite possible this is not as efficient as I believe it is ,but I will continue to search for the answers for I believe this is possible.Now that I have used 4 alike twelve volt batteries someone can try to replicate much easier.also the Idea of using smaller batteries will confirm results much faster. I will work on drawing my new circuit but it is basically the same except now a charge wire goes to a different set of batteries and both sets are connected at ground.And instead of powering at different voltages now we power from 24v with the bulbs for resistance.The bulbs are a 20watt 125v microwave bulb and also a 75 watt flood lite 120volts.

Thank you John for posting your new results using 4 batteries. This is a better approach and also makes it easier for replicators. I'm also glad it is giving you better results.

If you can afford to spend about $70. you can get 4 sealed led acid 12v 9A/Hr. batteries (including delivery) from here: 12V 7ah 12Volt 7amp hour SLA Sealed Lead Acid Battery - eBay (item 290261485794 end time Sep-24-08 13:43:52 PDT)

Using these you will be able to do the same tests but get much faster results as they are about 10% of the capacity of the batteries you mention above.

One small note. If you are quoting in milliamps you should not use the . before your digits like .370 milliamp unless you are saying it is less than 1 milliamp. Just write it as 370 milliamp or it is .370 amps

Keep us updated with your tests and please don't let anything discourage you as this is important research work.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[JANGYD]

Overpotential Effect?

What you are claiming is very similar to a text file I have found here of early tests that Bedini has done.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf

I do hope that you have indeed found something. It appears you are on the right path of testing what you are doing. I have found Peter's criticism very sharp at times, but he is often right. I do hope you can sustain this experiment for several hours.

I suspect John U experiment is similar to some experiment on report_on_4_pattery_switch. When it comes to battery CHEMICAL REACTION, I think Dr Peter Lindemann's comment is right that battery can't serve charging and discharging at same time.

I also suspect that John U experimet, If it says something, is related with overpotentianl effects explained by TOM BEARDEN on 'Energy FROM THE VACUUM_Concepts and Principles' p258~p270. Tom Bearden explained on this article that the overpotential effects on battery plates can serve the load and the battery charging at same time. But I understand Peter Lindemann's is right, because the load serving is not from the energy on bettery's chemical reaction, but Overpotential Effect.

Thanks

JANG.Y.D