Gray Tube Replication

[Beshires1]

Has any one tried colliding two High Voltage potentials in a Grey Tube? http://www.tb3.com/tesla/ratcb2006/images/TB_1485.jpg
Wiring two (identical) ignition coils as shown here will give you two opposite high voltage potentials, that are attracted to each other.

http://www.rmcybernetics.com/images/main/eng/ignition_coil_driver_circuit_diagram_3.jpg

Maybe place a neutral grid between them to intensify the radiant event?
I hooked up two of my coils together, But wired them + to + and - to- and arranged them 120 degrees two high voltage electrodes and one low voltage electrode. When I fired it up It pops loud like a capacitor discharge. (Note: my ignition coils were not identical) The high voltage spark, appeared to jump to each other and the low voltage electrode spark jumped toward the high voltage potentials and popped loudly, This is the first time I have ever seen the spark coming from the low voltage source (12V Battery) electrode. This was not done inside a Tube set-up. Also it could be that one coils output was higher than the other, and first jumped to the low voltage electrode then from the low voltage electrode to the other high voltage electrode. The sparking seemed to circulate between the three in a circular type pattern.

[Electrotek]

This is great!
Keep it up!

[nat1971a]

Info on carbon that Tesla was using in his lamps....thought this might be relevant to grays tube design...

"Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency" by Nikola Tesla

[nat1971a]

i just ordered some carborundum to try out.........as my carbon resistor in the gray tube....see what happens

[Beshires1]

Something Been naggin at me for quite some time about the Ed Grey Patent. Now I found what the experts on this subject say isn't needed really is needed to make this system work. I think that Item 42 (Schematic) patent 4595975 is a extremely important to make this circuit work. Its supposed to be a spark gap over voltage protection device. But I know that its a switch. Here is my take on this matter. I think the tube fired.....Between the pulses that fired the motor coils. Item 42 is a switch that diverts the pulse from coils high voltage output, thru one side of the bridge rectifier to either the tube or the motor depending upon the timing position for the required pulse. The rectified, high voltage potential will pulse the coils and seek a lower voltage potential, in this case the + positive of the battery. The high voltage potential will pulse the coils and continue to the battery positive for recharging. Item 42 is a patent protection device. Most knowledgeable people in the field decided that it wouldn't work as shown, and left it out entirely, along with the connecting Load to the power source. If you drop item 42 down to the bottom right corner of the drawing you should see where it actually goes. the line drawn between the two circles should be aligned with the capacitor. The other circle should align with the load. You do not need over voltage protection to protect the high voltage source ignition coil, because its the source of the high voltage.

I attached a bridge rectifier to the high voltage output of my ignition coil and ran a wire from the + of the bridge rectifier, to the positive wire of a small 12V DC motor. I then attached the negative of the motor to the + of the battery and ...The motor started turning. It turned slowly but it will rotate. Now Someone elts try it and confirm.

Here is a drawing modified to try to show what I mean. I Think that the function of 42 was preformed in 26 (the commutator).


Besides the drawing (42 looks remarkably like a SPDT switch.

[Electrotek]

I can't help just yet with the little HV motor circuit. It's been raining the last few days here in Phoenix and the cats are inside. They do have a habbit of jumping on the workbench unexpectedly, so I can't make any sparks for awhile. At least it's not cold. (40 C)

I discovered a circuit around five years ago which helps to understand the patent. It makes an interesting effect, similar to the Water Sparkplug - without the light or sound. The spark just goes pht, puffs way up, and becomes completely opaque. With some of my experiments, I lost the diode. Remembering that Gray had an Overshoot protection circuit, I thought I'd check it out, to see if it would protect my diode. I was surprised to see that his circuit was pretty close to my own.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

In my circuit, the D shaped component is a defribrillator inductor. This is equivalent to a motor coil, except I can't get any magnetic repusion from it, due to the drawn out spark effect, although it does affect wood. With my three electrodes, the two gaps associated with the HV cap arc all the time, as also shown in the *975 patent. However, the third electrode is CLOSER to this constant arc, based on the distance between the two primary gaps. The patent circuit shows the third electrode spaced farther away. To add mystery to the situation, John Bedini's circuit notes show the tripple gap as I have it.

With my circuit, the third electrode arcs to the constant spark between the other two electrodes. This is how the top cap charges. When this cap reaches a certain level - or anytime I move the electrode back, then reposition it, regardless of the charge level - the 'switch' flashes over, producing my effect. And this effect I'm getting is positive, in that it produces a plasma, rather than the normal negative spark from a cap's regular discharge. (That's why the electrode has to be so close; a positive discharge is difficult to initiate.) I'm actually discharaging the positive sides of two caps - each through its own coil - into an inductive arc, although my bottom cap isn't really needed for the effect.

On the other hand, when the third electrode is more distant, as in the patent, the closer electrodes produce their arc, as shown, but there is no arc to the third electrode, and the top cap doesn't charge. But, in the event of a high level of negative charge build up (likely on the grid in the Tube) the third electrode would discharge to the others, with a negative spark. (Protecting my diode.) So, while the patent spacing appears to be correct - to an unskilled reader - from the perspective of over voltage protection from the CSET's negative static charge buildup, this buildup would not occur with the alternate arrangement.

But this still leaves the question of how the top cap gets charged, in the patent circuit. Early in the patent, it says that the motor coil produces an inductive kick as its field collapses, with this voltage being in the same direction as the original potential. So this would allow the "strong positive charge" buildup on the cap, after several pulses. Then, when it talks about the Overshoot Switch, it says the motor produces negative spikes (in that direction), and that this is what the Switch protects against, with these spikes carried to ground by transient voltage diodes 44 and 46.

To further complicate the matter, reports have it that Gray didn't actually use the top cap to recover energy, since the motor produced so much torque that he was able to recharge the batteries with an alternator. Like you, I've thought for a long time that this electrode arrangement might be the secret to how his motor worked. But, without the top cap there is no exotic effect. Still, this doesn't mean that Gray didn't use the cap. It just means that he didn't discharge it across the battery. If Bedini's notes are correct, then the actual circuit is similar to mine. If so, and if this Item 42 is the secret to the operation, then there may be something missing from the circuit. Video of the motor in operation shows the CSET powered by a fairly large transformer. This looks adequate to charge the top cap with each cycle, but not through the time constant of the motor inductor. There might need to be a way to switch the cap directly to the #42 electrodes, for charging, then back in series with the motor for discharging. And this would have to happen between each pulse of the motor. This would then produce a biphasic potential through the motor, increasing its power. So, as you say, this Item 42 would also fire between the pulses which power the motor. Of course, some of this cap's charge comes from the diode T-tap, to the grids. The cap won't *automatically* discharge through 42 without nearly a full charge, but the extra charge from the T-tap may be enough, even with the motor's time constant limiting the charging rate from the other direction. Everything would have to be precisely ballanced. And the CSET itself doesn't fire with too high a pulse rate, so there may be several cycles from the transformer per discharge.


I'm still thinking about this. Now I have one more angle to consider. I think we may be getting close. John Bedini is pretty adamant that the motor will work without the CSET, perhaps using just the Ignitron. This is what Gray used to power his mass driver coils, later in his career. You and I may be right that Item 42 holds the key. I think I'll set up an experiment pretty soon. Maybe even a small test motor. Using this extra switching sequence, I should be able to get my effect more rapidly.

I'm sure Ed Gray knew exactly what his circuit was doing. So why did he have to hire someone to write the patent? Maybe it was because he couldn't figure out how to dance around the issue of this top cap's function, and obscure the patent, thereby hiding the true configuration, and function of Item 42.

[Beshires1]

I actually got my idea after reading this.
split the positive Text - Physics Forums Library
It seems these guys allready know how to make this circuit work without seeing the circuit. Anyway I'm Positive that this is the right track!

[Jetijs]

Got my graphite rod today:



It is rather brittle and I don't know how hard it will be to machine, probably harder that carbon. You can draw with this stuff and it makes your hands dirty very fast.

[nat1971a]

cool i ordered some graphite block as well....got it for $1 on ebay

[nat1971a]

thought i would point out that the carbon resistor in bedinis notes is covered by the charge receiving grids but in the patent it isnt.....i think this may be to conceal the real purpose of it in the patent.....

[nat1971a]

@beshires01

Can you please advise what u r using for the carbon resistor in your system

[nat1971a]

More info on using carbon


DARK ENERGY - Tesla's Flying Machine



One guy experimenting today:
Bill Alek writes: Hello all,

I have some very encouraging information to report in regards to my spark gap experiments:
Spark Gap Experiments

Excess electrical energy has been discovered in spark gaps using Carbon/Graphite - Tungsten rods. Assuming an ideal system, a maximum COP of 171% is possible using a Wimshurst Generator as the primary high-voltage dynamo.

A Tesla-like step-down transformer T1 with a ferrite rod is used to efficiently reduce the high-voltage down to safe practical levels, which can easily be distributed and measured. As shown in Fig. 1, successive electric discharges or Electrum Validum (EVs) discharges are generated, and their associated energy is collected in a 10uf low loss capacitor during a given period of time.

[nat1971a]

@beshires1

item 42 does seem odd.....he draws it with a circle around it....which is odd...in my book.......he draws the multivibrator and the commutator with a circle around it too....yet he quite clearly states in the patent text that it is a spark gap.....

seems odd to draw a spark gap with circles around it.....it seems to imply that all the switching devices are circled....

[Inquorate]

@nat

I've come across that page before. Looking at his setup, I theorized he was collecting the radiant event in his inductor which sit parallel to his spark rods...

[nat1971a]

@inquorate

thanks for the theory....but i am convinced a carbon block is the secret...to this device....tesla was experimenting with mixed electrodes too....carbon & copper.....and there is only one way to find out....

My theory is that the carbon resistor is the primary (equivalent to tesla's copper buss bar or copper strap....and the secondary is the charge receiving grids.....remember tesla's first experiments were with discharges into copper buss bars......a carbon buss bar is no different other than there is more resistance to any electrons and will force the energy to the outside of the conductor which is what we want...i have noted that in almost all the replications i have seen so far .....no one has taken this into account....it isnt a resistor as such it is the primary......Tesla advises us that stout conductors are of inappreciable in resistance to high frequency/high potential currents and this forces the radiant energy out to the outside.....this is want we want

if it was just a spark gap..then we would all be driving around in free energy cars.....

Cheers

Nat