U.S. and Russian satellites collide

[rickoff]

Reply to Wpage:

So if these theories are true. What happend to the planes and the passengers that allegedly were hijacked and killed?

W, if you take the time to read and study the material presented in this post, I think you will find the answers to this and other questions. If not, and you request it, I will gladly offer some deeper perspective.

Some of these passengers notebly the one that crashed over Penn had made calls to family's describing in detail the Arab terrorists

Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001

The effect of light and shadow is extreme. 9-11 was a beautiful clear day here in the NY area. If the shots on the light side are examined it is evident clearly what occured.

Even the mid to left side of the planes underbelly, which is partially shaded from sunlight, appears to be unpainted aluminum. And what about the stark difference in the tail lettering that I pointed out? I notice that no one is attempting to refute that.

To think that citizens of this countrys government and military would have participated in this activity is ludicrus.

W, I fully realize that the possibilities and probabilities being discussed are unthinkable to most Americans. No one wants to believe that our own government could have planned, condoned, and carried out an act as heinous as the 911 attacks. The mere thought of this actually occurring is, as you put it, ludicrous to most people, and especially to US citizens. I understand that feeling, and that belief, and simply ask that you calmly bear with me for a moment and listen to what I am about to tell you with an open mind. The following information is from historical and verifiable records and I will provide references. These are absolute facts, and can not be ascribed as belonging to any conspiracy theory.

First let me begin with a short history of events surrounding a well remembered era of our country's not too distant past. This is necessary in order for a clear understanding.

Let us step back in time to the year 1961, when John Kennedy was President of the United States. You will probably remember that there was a lot of tension between the US and Cuba, and that the USBay of Pigs Cuba Invasion, planned by the US government, authorized by President Kennedy, and carried out with CIA and US armed forces support, had failed. Soon afterwards, Castro declared Cuba a Socialist Republic, and began reinforcing his military with direct funding from the Soviets. Tensions heightened, and the USOperation Mongoose

[i]Operation Northwoods [ii]


As you read the information at the following links, pay very close attention to the ContentsGeorge Washington UniversityWashington, DC.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

[i] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mongoose
[ii]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods


-- Please read the continuation of this factual story in post #47, where additionally cited references will also be included -- Rick

[rickoff]

Continuation of reply to Wpage:

Thankfully, when President Kennedy realized what the Joint Chiefs of Staff were proposing, he rejected their plan and denied Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer a second term in office. General Lemnitzer should have been court marshaled, or at the very least demoted and dishonorably discharged from the armed forces for his part in the Operation Northwoods scheme, but instead he went on later in 1962 to become Commander of US forces in EuropeIraqa slam dunk[i][ii].

Anyways, the planned activities of Operation Northwoods included some eerily similar situations to those which occurred on September 11, 2001

US government sponsored terrorism still seems ludicrous to you. If you still wish to believe that, it is certainly your option to do so. Personally, though, I believe that the time is right for us to openly discuss and share this information in a quest for 911 truth.



[i] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/15/AR2007041500653.html

[ii] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

See also:
Operation Mongoose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mongoose
Operation Northwoodshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods



Best Regards to all,

Rick

[Aromaz]

Ouch !!

I know of other people than the American Public that would really like to know what happened.

The more I scratch, the more I fear there is a very bad stink around this 911 thing.

Hijackers Alive And Well 9-11 review
Osama Bin Asset - 9-11Review

[ashtweth]

wpage the government has done false flags for generations, stop being so naive and look at the EVIDENCE please. Conspiracy and corruption has been going on since BEFORE Roman times, what makes it so difficult for you to think that power and money don't corrupt? - And that individuals in high positions don't, DO AND can act this way?

I noticed you also questioned Aaron about the AIDS stuff , saying, how can a government blah blah. Well Wpage its about time you looked in the real world and at the EVIDENCE with this in [an open]mind. Its been going on LONGER then you have been alive. Individuals in government can easily be or manipulate, just because they have the American logo on them does not make them any different to the people who conspired to attack Ceaser. ETC. The Sooner you come to terms with this, the easier it will be for you to understand and look at the EVIDENCE with an open mind.

Sincerely
Ash

[Aaron]

Aids References

AIDS references, please go here to keep this topic on topic:

http://www.energeticforum.com/health-fitness-nutrition/3245-boyd-graves-aids-cure.html

Also, please get full disclosure pdf: callingessence - ESSENCE 

And get this flowchart documenting the entire creation and evolution of the manmade "aids" virus.

http://www.boydgraves.com/images/flowchart72.tif

[rickoff]

Reply to dambit:

I've been looking over some of my old L1011 photos I have from my early Cathay days, (In the old Cathay Pacific colours the underside of the L1011 is polished aluminium) and in some shots the underside takes on a similar appearance to the aircraft in your shot. So maybe.

Yes, I see what you mean. Of course this plane could not have been a L1011, since it does not have a 3rd engine at the tail, but the underside would have a similar appearance, as you mention.

I have attached your pic with the three dark spots circled. Personaly I can only see the three and suspect that your forth is the undercarrage bay door. I dropped the ball again in my last post saying that the cargo doors are on the left side of the fuselage, they are normaly always on the right side of the fuselage. So I am still questioning what these could be. (unless this image is mirrored) FYI all three variants of the 767 (200, 300 & 400) have three cargo doors. The cargo variant has three lower doors and fourth door on the upper fuselage (not visible in this pic).The only other difference is the length of the aircraft.

That's right, dambit, the cargo doors should be on the right side, and this image is definitely properly oriented, so this makes the dark squares of the underbelly even more mysterious.

I would think that not questioning the painfully obvious flaws and omissions in the official report (such as building 7 and the total lack of aircraft wreckage or bodies in Pennsylvania) would be doing a greater disservice. IMHO

Yes, some pretty strange stuff. WTC buildings 1&2 (the twin towers), and building 7, are the only steel framed buildings ever to have entirely collapsed, due to fire, in American history. And building 7 certainly didn't fall from being impacted by the towers, since it fell nearly 7 hours after the second tower collapsed.

Reporters, quickly arriving at the Pennsylvania "crash site" said there was really no sign of wreckage - that they only saw a small crater in the ground. It was later explained that the earth was very soft in the area due to past strip mining, and that the impact had buried the aircraft. Strange, then, that the entire lightweight aluminum fuselage, wings, and tail section had supposedly buried itself, while a 1 ton chunk of engine was claimed to have been found 2000 feet away from the crater site. If in fact the earth was soft there, the heavy engines would have gone deeper into the ground than anything else in a nose dive crash.

Rick

[rickoff]

Another strange fact regarding flight 175

There is definitely something very peculiar seen in the following MSNBC TV live news coverage on September 11, 2001, as seen here:
YouTube - 9/11 - Television -- 1/12

The clip starts with the caption, "EARLIER ," shows huge, billowing clouds of smoke, and says at the bottom of the screen that the "SOUTH TOWER OF WORLD TRADE CENTER HAS COLLAPSED." The south tower was supposedly hit by United Airlines flight 175 at 9:03AM, and the tower is said to have collapsed at 9:59 AM. So keep in mind that as they then go to a live shot that shows the north tower still standing, the time is somewhere between 10:AM and 10:28, which is the reported time that the north tower fell. Next, they revert to a priorly taped shot showing the twin towers both standing, the north tower smoking, and the supposed flight 175 approaches and crashes into the south tower. After this, back to live feed again. At about 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the clip, the reporter states that they have just received word that all international flights into the US have been diverted to Canada. Now keep in mind that the order for all domestic flights to land had gone out at about 9:30AM, and many flights would already have landed. Others would be circling airports waiting their turn for an available landing strip. At 2 minutes and 40 seconds, the reporter tells us that they are going to try and show us a screen view of their "Flight Explorer." This is a computer program that takes real-time live feed supplied by the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA), and shows a screen view depicting current locations and identifications of in-flight aircraft. As the live view comes up, the reporter notes how very few planes are still flying, and that only three aircraft are left flying at this time in the general vicinity of New York City. As he points at each of these planes, the identifying information for each one appears. If you pause the video at 3:12 elapsed time, you can read in the top line of the flight info box that this is "UAL 175." So we have United Airlines flight 175 still flying at least one hour after it supposedly crashed into the south WTC tower. Rather strange, isn't it?

Incidentally, the direction the UAL175 airplane icon is pointed, and the previous flight line (coming from WSW) indicates that UA175 was on it's way back to Boston, which is consistent with the general grounding, which instructed all planes to go back to their point of departure.

See a Flight Explorer live snap shot of all current North America flight locations here: Sabre Flight Explorer - US Traffic

Or go here, and scroll down near bottom of page to see a live snapshot of the region centered at New York City area:
Airport Information and Security Checkpoint Delays from Sabre Flight Explorer
If you look around 10AM, you should see quite a few planes in this area.


Best regards,

Rick

[wpage]

Not buying it

Sorry guys...

Not certain who is being closed minded here. However I do disagree due to a lack of compelling evidence...

- The US Government did not take down the World Trade Center Towers and create the 911 incident as a DOD plan for US dominance.

Ash,
- The US Government did not create the AIDs epidemic as a way to cull minority and poor demographic groups, as you imply.

Back on point the issue of satellite and space monitoring. If a entity is sending a multi million dollar asset to space. It would be a good idea for them to keep an eye on thier asset. If its on a collision course they should take action. Either paying another entity with resources to avert disaster. Or be willing to accept consequences.

[rickoff]

W,

Since flight 175 was still flying an hour after the government tells us that it crashed into the south WTC tower, don't you think that is rather compelling evidence, in and of itself, that we have been lied to? And while this might be considered a relatively small lie, or mistake, when compared to the entire scope of the 911 attacks, there is substantial other irrefutable evidence that, when taken all together, does present very compelling evidence that there is a lot more to what happened than our government would have us believe.

Offering a blanket statement, such as, " The US Government did not take down the World Trade Center Towers and create the 911 incident as a DOD plan for US dominance," is just a matter of opinion. Can you offer any evidence that supports this conclusion, or any reasonable evidence that would explain the anomalies discussed so far? Can you suggest what plane did crash into the south WTC tower? Since the tail lettering does not match the actual flight 175 aircraft lettering, and since flight 175 was identified by FAA as flying one hour after the tower crash, the plane that hit the south tower can not possibly have been UAL flight 175. Is that agreed? If not, then a compelling argument to refute this information should be made by anyone who may disagree. I still haven't been made aware of any such argument, but am quite willing to listen to, and consider one with an open mind.

Best regards,

Rick

[dambit]

Thats some good info Rickoff.

Regarding the satelites. I would have thought that with the billions of $$ spent on maintaining and tracking these things, some boffin would have developed a computer program that can predict the future flight paths and compare them for collisions. After all, they can forcast the position of meteors and planets etc years into the future, so why not a satelite.

Maybe that suggestion is too logical for them. After all, these are the same "scientists" that claim it will take 15 years to get back to the moon. They must have run out of gold al-foil



Steve.

[jibbguy]

Bldg 7 is the smoking gun

This one is probably the strangest bit of 9/11 evidence, of which there was quite a lot that day. Here, the BBC reported the fall of the "Solomon Brothers Bldg" (Bldg 7 of the WTC complex) dropping 23 minute before it actually did.

In fact, the actual building can be seen behind the reporter's head as she reports on the event. The BBC says it got this report of Bldg. 7's collapse from the U.S. government.

YouTube - BBC Reported Collapse of WTC Building 7 Early-- TWICE

Bldg 7 was mentioned very rarely by the mainstream media... Most people do no even know there was a third building to collapse that day. It was not hit by a plane, had only minor fires, and it fell in it's own footprint at free-fall speeds; looking for all the world like a controlled demolition. It fell for no good reason.

For that building to have been so weak to have done that "naturally" from only superficial damage on the outside and small fires within... It would have collapsed from it's own weight years before.

2 weeks ago a building of about the same size and also constructed of steel in Beijing China burned for over 2 days; a huge inferno with flames over 400 feet high. It did not collapse.

[rickoff]

Reply to jibguy:

You're quite right, jibguy, and this is but one more piece of very solid evidence that the "official" story of 911 is nonsense. The reporter obviously didn't realize that one of the buildings viewed through the window behind her actually was WTC building 7, the same building said to have already fallen. Very peculiar, too, how the live camera feed suddenly broke up and was "lost" just a few minutes before the actual collapse. In the quest for truth, the 911 Commission report failed miserably by not aggressively pursuing adequate answers to legitimate questions.

Another excellent presentation regarding WTC building 7 can be seen here: YouTube - 9/11 Truth: What Happened to Building 7

Rick

[Aaron]

evidence

I know this isn't a 9/11 thread, but there is evidence of a cover up and evidence isn't exactly proof, there is however evidence beyond a reasonable doubt in my opinion that there is a cover up without having any emotions involved, etc... just looking at the facts of the untruths told by our govt on the news, etc... not just claiming they are untruths but backed by multiple contradictory statements, etc... It is the Reichstag Fire for the 21st century.
Reichstag fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe the "official" 911 commission report said bldg 7 fell from the explosion of the diesel in the basement stored there for back up generators. Does anyone actually believe that diesel will explode and bring a bldg down like? I like to think of myself as someone that believes anything is possible, but I have to admit, that explanation is so seriously out of touch with anything even remotely resembling reality that it should be taken as prima facia evidence that the investigation is 100% fraud.

Also, Silverstein, the controller of the WTC complex admitted on a PBS special that with Bldg 7, there were orders to "pull it." "pull it" is a demolition term to trigger the explosives to bring down the bldg. He claimed he meant something later but refused any further comment.



"I remember getting a call from the uh fire department commander. Telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said 'You know we've had such a terrible loss of life - maybe the smartest thing to do is - is pull it - uh' Uh and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."
YouTube - WTC 7 - Pull It By Larry Silverstein

There was also an interview with author Tom Clancy on 9/11...he was on the roof of a building..in the background, there was a huge plume of smoke from an explosion that was 100% unrelated to any falling debris or plane crash:


It is at the bottom left of the screen. In 911 in Plane Site,
the whole interview from CNN is there with Tom Clancy and that
huge plume of smoke exploding from the bottom left.

As far as seeing the possibility of planes used as weapons...they
kept saying they never foresaw this:

On April 8, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks heard testimony from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that the White House didn't anticipate hijacked planes being used as weapons.

On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it "too unrealistic."

President Bush said at a news conference Tuesday, "Nobody in our government, at least, and I don't think the prior government, could envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale.""

"While Rice may not have been aware of the 12 separate and explicit warnings about terrorists using planes as weapons when she made her denial in 2002, she did know about them when she wrote her March 22, 2004 Washington Post op-ed. In that piece, she once again repeated the claim there was no indication "that terrorists were preparing to attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles." [Source: Washington Post, 3/22/04]"

Well, this picture is from Donald Rumsfield's own office one entire year before 9/11.



Here is the archive link to the Army's own webpage that they are trying to hide showing this ANTICIPATED possibility of planes used as weapons.
Military District of Washington

Here are the Army's original links to this test:

http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/news_photos/Contingency_Planning_Photos.html

http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/5_44/local_news/2852-1.html

I remember when these weren't covered up yet and those links worked.

Here is the story on the Army website:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"

Washington, D.C., Nov. 3, 2000The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard. Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.

Don Abbott, of Command Emergency Response Training, walks over to the Pentagon and extinguishes the flames. The Pentagon was a model and the "plane crash" was a simulated one.

The Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise, as the crash was called, was just one of several scenarios that emergency response teams were exposed to Oct. 24-26 in the Office of the Secretaries of Defense conference room.

On Oct. 24, there was a mock terrorist incident at the Pentagon Metro stop and a construction accident to name just some of the scenarios that were practiced to better prepare local agencies for real incidents.

To conduct the exercise, emergency personnel hold radios that are used to rush help to the proper places, while toy trucks representing rescue equipment are pushed around the exercise table.

Cards are then passed out to the various players designating the number of casualties and where they should be sent in a given scenario.

To conduct the exercise, a medic reports to Army nurse Maj. Lorie Brown a list of 28 casualties so far. Brown then contacts her superior on the radio, Col. James Geiling, a doctor in the command room across the hall.

Geiling approves Brown's request for helicopters to evacuate the wounded. A policeman in the room recommends not moving bodies and Abbott, playing the role of referee, nods his head in agreement.

"If you have to move dead bodies to get to live bodies, that's okay," Abbott says as the situation unfolds .

Geiling remarked on the importance of such exercises.

"The most important thing is who are the players?" Geiling said. "And what is their modus operandi?"

Brown thought the exercise was excellent preparation for any potential disasters.

"This is important so that we're better prepared," Brown said. "This is to work out the bugs. Hopefully it will never happen, but this way we're prepared."

An Army medic found the practice realistic.

"You get to see the people that we'll be dealing with and to think about the scenarios and what you would do," Sgt. Kelly Brown said. "It's a real good scenario and one that could happen easily."

A major player in the exercise was the Arlington Fire Department.

"Our role is fire and rescue," Battalion Chief R.W. Cornwell said. "We get to see how each other operates and the roles and responsibilities of each. You have to plan for this. Look at all the air traffic around here."

Each participant was required to fill out an evaluation form after the training exercise.

"We go over scenarios that are germane to the Pentagon," Jake Burrell of the Pentagon Emergency Management Team said. 'You play the way you practice. We want people to go back to their organizations and look at their S.O.P. (standard operating procedure) and see how they responded to any of the incidents."

Burrell has coordinated these exercises for four years and he remarked that his team gets better each year.

Abbott, in his after action critique, reminded the participants that the actual disaster is only one-fifth of the incident and that the whole emergency would run for seven to 20 days and might involve as many as 17 agencies.

"The emergency to a certain extent is the easiest part," Abbott said. He reminded the group of the personal side of a disaster. "Families wanting to come to the crash site for closure."

In this particular crash there would have been 341 victims.

(Ryan is a staff writer with the Fort Myer Military Community's Pentagram.)"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

George Bush's cousin was in charge of WTC security and had the buildings wired with a new security system??? What were they wiring through the building??? There would be no need to install a new security system especially when Silverstein had been getting estimates on demolishing the WTC complex a few months before but was obviously expensive because of the environmental issues on top of the normal costs..asbestos, etc...

Also, multiple seismographic detectors registering large explosions separate from the planes hitting, separate from the buildings falling...but at the time right BEFORE collapse when everyone was saying they heard monstrous explosions from the basement of the towers...those are the explosions that were detonated...there is trace of explosives in the air around the WTC complex, etc... lots and lots of evidence.

[Sharyn]

Still on 9/11

911Truth is a very comprehensive site covering some of the information already mentioned in previous posts as well as a lot of other audios, videos, articles & reports.

It also contains very interesting information about the Bali bombing & what allegedly actually occurred in Kuta as opposed to what the general populous has been led to believe.




Love, Light & Blessings
Sharyn

[wpage]

De Facto Standards

Once a proven truth or de facto standard has been established. To disprove it requires evidence not speculations and hearsays...
The major facts and evidence have been wieghed and measured against
minor and some contra information. The results are what is accepted by most.
I do appreciate the valuable information here however I accept the conclusions that were reached by the majority.

Getting back to sattelites and space junk. Today a home in texas had a
3" peice of junk come crashing thru its roof and ceiling today...
Was it fallout from the sattelite?