Claim Buster Topic

[Farmhand]

So in my way of thinking he is using the motor coils to convert electrical
power into mechanical power which turns the generator shaft.

Considering this I think he needs to consider the mechanical power still
provided to the generator shaft (which is the motor shaft also) while the load
is powered and in my opinion it is that mechanical power value the measured
watts availiable in the load circuit should be divided by.

The question is how to determin the mechanical power provided to the shaft ?

The motor and generator shaft are one shaft.

Is there no idependant evaluation done on this ? If I thoght I had an
overunity generator I would get an independant efficiency evaluation done on it.

I don't think anything can be proved by a video, independant evaluation would convince me.

Cheers

[Guest]

It may be apparent by now that my previous description of Thane's
demonstration was not exactly right. The true representation
of what he shows is a decrease of the system input power
from 212W down to 196W while the system accelerates to an
equivalent speed of consuming 294W.

It is then generating 98W in mechanical output from the zero
point energy field or aether... what else could explain where
this work energy is originating? It may not be that his system
is creating but rather harnessing.

He states the efficiency at around 140%. With 196W going into
powering the motor operating at a level normally requiring 294W,
there is apparently a much greater increase in kinetic energy than
can be accounted for by the work energy principle and law of
conservation of energy.

The input energy should be considered as a loss, I agree. The 196W
powering his motor is just being used up with no return. With all
of the attention focused on his technology, what might his plan be
to recover the 140% kinetic energy into real power?

What will keep the car going when there's no outlet? My guess is
he's not heading towards a purposful failure, and has a lot of
unshared information and technique that will not be released; after
all he is in business to succeed.

Once a working system is put into a vehicle and shown to operate
as a regenerative option, it ought to be disassembled so we can
all find out just what is going on once and for all.

[Farmhand]

With all
of the attention focused on his technology, what might his plan be
to recover the 140% kinetic energy into real power?

What will keep the car going when there's no outlet? My guess is
he's not heading towards a purposful failure, and has a lot of
unshared information and technique that will not be released; after
all he is in business to succeed.

Once a working system is put into a vehicle and shown to operate
as a regenerative option, it ought to be disassembled so we can
all find out just what is going on once and for all.

Hi Geo, I'll give my opinion to the two questions, but that's all it is is my opinion.

Regarding the 140% thing, it is still yet to be proved it is not just a reduction
in drag. Decoupling the motor would show it using a procedure like I outlined
in one of my above posts. Comparing power consumed with the accelerating
rotor to the decoupled power consumption or something similar. It can be done.

Regarding what will keep the car or bike going when there is no output, this is
not such a problem as weather it is what he says it is or not, in an
engineering sense almost anything can be done.

The thing is the rotor does appear to need to be accelerated up to speed and
as we can all imagine it needs to be spinning constantly. However the coils
could be moved into place at the right time no problem, without the coils the
rotor is just a flywheel with magnets on it. Doing that though would mean
that the regenerative acceleration generator or whatever he calls it could not
be the motor driving the car. I can't see that as a problem either.

I am certain there is some benefit to delaying current, magnetization and
phase shifting because of all the work Tesla did in that area. He has designed
many ways to do these things, I assume for good reason too.

The thing that would concern me is if he were holding back info that could
help humanity for the sake of money, patents, ego and so forth. I'm not
saying that's the case though.

I can deal with efficiency's of 400% and even more no problem but not the
creation of energy, really efficient energy use can do that because power is
not energy.

I think the number one thing is. Do the generator coils provide mechanical
power to the rotor ? And if so how much ?

The acceleration effect could maybe be a combination of drag reduction and
force from the coils/core's.

It seems to me if the generator coils are providing mechanical power it could
be a case of mechanical/electrical/mechanical closed looping or something
similar (like a recovery system but not back to a battery back to the shaft)
except the loop is not closed until the acceleration begins which is not
the best in my opinion. The loop should be closed all the time or as much as
possible.

Cheers

[Guest]

[ Vvv - &*? ]

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[mbrownn]

hi farmhand
i want to say mbrown did a good job of explaining the power back feed of the resonant choke by fields but he seemd to miss one important part in the case of what you are doing as you increase the resistance you increase the tension of the virtual capacitor at the top of your coils and store this potential in the or should say across the load and as it returns the amount of current is increased making resistance rise for the input.
static charges seem to increase potential with the increase of resistance.

hope this is of some help
Martin

Did I? not sure what you mean by resonant choke or virtual capacitor. Also what I think you are talking about is impedance and not resistance, resistance is always a loss.

With a coil all current passes through and the voltage drop you get multiplied by the current is the energy consumed under ohms law. The inductive kickback can almost equal the power put in so the only real loss was due to resistance and not impedance but because no current was consumed in the charge of a coil the current is the discharge must be new. The voltage in the discharge has two parts to it, A transient high voltage spike and a lower voltage than the source ramp down. The transient is, I believe, is radiant energy caused by the aether following the wire and the ramp down is due to the collapse of the magnetic field or the aether returning to its non polarized state. Both of these things are new inputs to the system as the original current had already passed through the coil in the field rise although it could be said that the aether stored the energy from the input and released it in the ramp down of the discharge.

Are we talking about the same thing?

[mbrownn]

Hi Farmhand, Is the power really the manipulation of the aether having a physical effect on matter? If so maybe you would not need to measure a voltage on your receiver coil, just measure the work you can do with the output current.

[Farmhand]

Hey mbrownn, I will have a video soon I think you'll like.

I have a Tesla coil running from a Tesla Switch type battery configuration
(you know the kind) and from the 12 volt battery I have a light bulb running.

The whole setup is consuming about 5 watts from the two series batteries the
bulb is consuming about 3.72 watts and the Tesla coil is consuming about
2.48 watts the 12 volt battery voltage is rising and the Tesla coil output is not
measured.

I am about to video tape it.

I'll post a drawing of the arrangement.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Transferring video now.

Cheers

P.S. I'm reserving my judgment of the results until others watch the video and
give some opinions. The video will take quite some time to upload, in the video
I measured the voltage across another 0.1 ohm resistor which is not marked
on the drawing it's between the 24volt battery terminal and the capacitor.

[nueview]

hi farmhand
i will try to do a bit better in explaining the virtual capacitance i was talking about is at the terminals of the tesla coils you have i think tesla said it was so many pico farad per square foot i think i remember it was like 20 or so i am not sure of the numbers here but on low power devices it is much more critical. i think you already have this part figured out for yourself.

now the load and tank circuit on the second tesla tower is a bit tricky for me to explain i once made a tank circuit on a regular transformer primary and then used one of the secondary windings shorted with a variable resistor to adjust the frequency of the primary circuitbecause as the load draws more power the frequency goes up to keep the primary resonant.

this action can have a double reactance as the power falls as well kind of like FM radio modulation. this power being fed back can be in opposition much like the back emf in a standard motor to reduce the input power.

i hope this makes what i have said a bit clearer don't feel bad if you don't get it it took me allot of help to get it myself.
Martin

[Farmhand]

hi farmhand
i will try to do a bit better in explaining the virtual capacitance i was talking about is at the terminals of the tesla coils you have i think tesla said it was so many pico farad per square foot i think i remember it was like 20 or so i am not sure of the numbers here but on low power devices it is much more critical. i think you already have this part figured out for yourself.

now the load and tank circuit on the second tesla tower is a bit tricky for me to explain i once made a tank circuit on a regular transformer primary and then used one of the secondary windings shorted with a variable resistor to adjust the frequency of the primary circuitbecause as the load draws more power the frequency goes up to keep the primary resonant.

this action can have a double reactance as the power falls as well kind of like FM radio modulation. this power being fed back can be in opposition much like the back emf in a standard motor to reduce the input power.

i hope this makes what i have said a bit clearer don't feel bad if you don't get it it took me allot of help to get it myself.
Martin

Which frequency is that ? My PG circuit frequency does not change.

When I load the receiver the resonant frequency of the output coil ( the small coil usually a primary )
changes that's all, and I can easily adjust the tank to regain resonance by
reducing it's capacitance or inductance to adjust the loaded resonant
frequency back to what it was, the tall coil with the Open capacitor terminal
does not change resonant frequency, unless by a very small amount.

I'm ok and I have no problems with the setup, the video I showed was for
demonstration only, if I had wanted to I could have adjusted the output tank
and got more power out regained the frequency match and the input would
have gone up, that's how to adjust the output power.

Like I said the only advice I want about that setup is weather or not there is power applied to the receiver coil. I know how to tune it, those two video's
were to show that particular effect. Didn't you get that ? I thought it
was obvious.

Cheers

[nueview]

Yup i am sure you can tune it all out the effect was what you asked about how it could occur and i just attempted to answer that for you.
it is typical that this occurs in ham radio and causes parasitic oscillations or frequency drift.
it is also adjusted out.
Martin

[Farmhand]

OK so here is the video. Efficiency-Test.wmv - YouTube

I measured the power out of the series batteries at 4.7462 watts.

The power supplied to the transformer was 2.3674 watts.

So basically the same power 2.3674 watts is applied to the single battery.

The idle power of the transformer is 0.218 watts. ( I forgot to measure this during the video).

The bulb was using 3.7847 watts which is basically irrelevant.

I work out after crunching a few numbers that the setup is about 95 % efficient without
counting the Tesla coil output.

I got that by adding the power to the single battery, to the power to the
transformer then subtracting the transformer idle power to get 4.5168 watts, divided by
4.7462 watts input from the series batteries which is about .951 x 100 = 95.1%.

I can do better by reducing the transformer losses just by using a recovery
system on the transformer primaries and also loading the secondary with a
different load so I can count it's output, the recovery will go back to the input .

These measurement were not all that accurate either, when i think I'm close to 100% i'll be more careful.

The single battery voltage was rising only because the load on it was reduced,
it was still providing 1.3796 watts the the bulb, and after a period of time it
would have stopped rising and started falling. That was the point to the
video, to show that reducing the load on something will have that effect. The
battery is not charging but it would have without the bulb because it would
have had 2.3674 watts applied to it without the bulb there.

And by the way with the transformer idle if I use the recovery diode's on the
primaries the input reduces a bit, so it can reduce it's input and if that
recovery is directed back to the source it will reduce the load on it as well.

Next video will be much closer to 100% total efficiency.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Yup i am sure you can tune it all out the effect was what you asked about how it could occur and i just attempted to answer that for you.
it is typical that this occurs in ham radio and causes parasitic oscillations or frequency drift.
it is also adjusted out.
Martin

I don't remember asking how it could occur. If I did I don't remember it.

Cheers

P.S. Yes sorry I do remember asking you how the primary resistance could be
increased. But that was because you just come out and said the resistance
was increased and I was using a resonant choke. That was a bit unclear.

No prob's yes you're right, it does go something like that.
Here's your post

http://www.energeticforum.com/163149-post45.html

Here's mine just before that.

http://www.energeticforum.com/163142-post44.html

Originally I just said it did it, I don't see where i asked how it did it. How is irrelevant
because it did it. I didn't ask how until after you said it first.

..
..

[Farmhand]

Here's a video I made to show how easy it is to show an increased power
level when using just a resistor as the "purely resistive load",. If I had of used
a very low power input level and a higher value resistor, it would have looked
a bit more realistic. Basically any value could be shown. I get a bit antsy in
the video please ignore that.

Power Resistor Trick.wmv - YouTube

OK now the good news, after I made the trick video, I test it properly and it
seems to be testing consistantly over 100 % total efficiency, when used like
in the photo. (The photo shows a simplified transformer mine is like the drawing below.)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Being a Tesla converter style primary coil winding arrangement I can't say I'm
surprised. Must be the efficiency of the rotating magnetic field. I can't say it
would work with a regular transformer or coil.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

These are some rough calculations I made. The recovery is causing 130 Ma of
current through two batteries in series so that's how I measured it. If I open
circuit the secondary the input drops to 250 Ma @ 12.45 volts = 3.11 watts
and the recovery is still causing 130 Ma of current through the
series batteries @ 25.2 volts which work's out to 3.27 watts. So 105.3 %
total efficiency. But I will just say it's 99.9% efficient.

If someone could confirm the battery arrangement and power measurement
point's that would be good. In a regular recovery setup the charge battery is
in series with the source battery, that made me unsure of how to measure
the voltage to get the power to the charge batteries, this way is not so the
current must go through both series batteries. Both current measurement
points on the recovery circuit show the same result. The current is real
because it is charging the batteries well for the amount of current.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I can show this on video anytime and I will soon. But that won't really prove anything. I can get better efficiency's than that too, and while powering good loads.

Cheers

P.S. Here is the converter circuit, I can provide any details requested, I'm
seeing the voltage rise across the two batteries combined when done in the
usual way in two hours the voltage of both batteries combined has gone from
25.35v to 25.51v I measure about 4.27 watts applied to the batteries and
3.55 watts input from the single battery. And I think I know how it does it and
it's easily explainable.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'ts a numbers game but it has a real effect .

Here's a song to remind us why we are all here, the video will be a while yet.
Enjoy.

Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1 - Live, 1980 - YouTube

..

[Farmhand]

OK, There is even a formula for the result, or effect, which seems to hold
true. So far.

This is the Farmhand Formula for recovery gain .

It goes like this.

Half the output becomes input as it's recycled. So that is subtracted from the
apparent input, which gives the real input, the real input is subtracted from
half the output and that gives the gain, then the gain is added to the
apparent input to get the output.

So output = 4.277w / 2 = 2.138w

App input = 3.551w - 2.138w = 1.413w real input

.5 output = 2.138w - real input 1.413w = 0.725w Gain

App input 3.551w + Gain 0.725w = output 4.276w

Too easy so AIP-OP/2-RIP+AIP = OP

Well there it is, and 120 % efficient too.

Video is halfway uploaded.

Here's another song.
Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2 - YouTube

And some text from the IRWNT book.

ChapterIII (3) Page 24 From :

The Inventions Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla

The transformers present an
additional advantage in their capability of operating motors.
They are capable of similar modifications in construction, and will
facilitate the introduction of motors and their adaptation to practical
demands. Their efficiency should be higher than that of
the present transformers, and I base my assertion on the following
In a transformer, as constructed at present, we produce the
currents in the secondary circuit by varying the strength of the
primary or exciting currents. If we admit proportionality with
respect to the iron core the inductive effect exerted upon the
secondary coil will be proportional to the numerical sum of the
variations in the strength of the exciting current per unit of time;
whence it follows that for a given variation any prolongation of
the primary current will result in a proportional loss. In order
to obtain rapid variations in the strength of the current, essential
to efficient induction, a great number of undulations are employed
; from this practice various disadvantages result. These are :
Increased cost and diminished efficiency of the generator ; more
waste of energy in heating the cores, and also diminished output
of the transformer, since the core is not properly utilized, the
reversals being too rapid. The inductive effect is also very small
in certain phases, as will be apparent from a graphic representation,
and there may be periods of inaction, if there are intervals
between the succeeding current impulses or waves. In producing
a shifting of the poles in a transformer, and thereby inducing
currents, the induction is of the ideal character, being always
maintained at its maximum action. It is also reasonable to assume
that by a shifting of the poles less energy will be wasted
than by reversals.

Cheers