Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[shylo]

video

Hi Wantomake, I couldn't see your video. Maybe just take a pic of your car coil setup with different colour tape for labels?
Thanks artv

[MadMack]

OK, this is the last I am going to say about using the mains instead of an isolation transformer or battery/inverter as a power source for your B&L circuit testing.

To use the mains power for TESTING a B&L device:

First of all, do not omit the ground wire from the mains supply to your device. I am talking about the third green or bare wire that is found in all 120V branch circuits here in the US. This wire is bonded to the NEUTRAL at the service panel along with all of the white neutral wires and ground wires from your house branch circuits. This is NOT the EARTH ground wire.

Turn off your main breaker switch to kill all power to your house. Add a separate 120V 20A breaker to your service panel. Use this breaker for your B&L device. Run a 3 wire romex out to your B&L device. Connect the black wire to the new breaker, the white wire and the bare wire to the neutral/ground bus in the service panel. At the other end, wire the romex up to an outlet box, 3 prong type of course. Connect your B&L device to this outlet box with an ordinary three prong plug. Make sure the plug ground wire is connected to a common bus on your B&L device along with any ground wires from load outlets.

Now when you want to test your B&L device, turn off the main breaker and all the house breakers. Disconnect the EARTH wire at your service panel and isolate it. Turn on the main breaker and the breaker for the B&L device only. Run your tests. When you are finished, reverse the procedure and restore the earth wire to the service panel.

Doing this will remove any possibility of any current feeding your device from the mains EARTH ground. Any load you run for testing will have the exact same short circuit protection as any other branch circuit in your house.

For any who don't already know, the ground wire in a branch circuit outlet is bonded to the neutral bus to provide a high current path back to the transformer feeding your house so a short circuit will cause the panel breaker to trip.

Now can we be done with this nonsense that you cannot use mains power to your B&L device for testing purposes?

Mack

[MadMack]

The fact someone would even suggest disconnecting the safety ground from the mains electrical panel is very strong evidence that person has absolutely no business working with mains power.

I see what you mean Clarence. Can't discuss possibilities, won't entertain the idea that you might have something real, always resorting to insults. So citfa, the power and light people and all electricians have no business working with mains power. Right.

Adios

PS. When I bought the toroids they told me there was a sudden demand for those transformers. A lot of people were even buying four at a time. Judging from the responses here, we will probably never hear from them.

[wantomake]

I have that hope

Clarence,
Thanks for the kind words. My ultimate goal is to finish a home unit, then hope and plan someday to see a real motor/generator that we all can share and replicate.

Respectively,
wantomake

[wantomake]

no mains connection

Hello wantomake. If you are using car ignition coils to step up the voltage, then that doesn't sound exactly like a Barbosa and Leal arrangement, but if you can post a drawing here showing how you have everything connected, I think people here would be interested in seeing it. Are you just powering your setup from a battery and inverter, with no mains connection at all?

Level,
No mains connection. Just regular inverter no pure sine wave. Smart car battery charger, marine battery bank (solar bank). Two no resistor car coils(old upright can type).

I did make a drawing in one sketch book to study with, not sure will show up good as picture. I don't have the schematic drawing feature on this kindle fire.
I use the Kurt oscillator setup without the Darlington pair.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=QoYDbHhbaNY

Hope this helps,
wantomake

[citfta]

The fact someone would even suggest disconnecting the safety ground from the mains electrical panel is very strong evidence that person has absolutely no business working with mains power.

If you insist that mains power is somehow necessary for this circuit to work then USE an isolation transformer like I suggested earlier. If there is really no ground loop problem like you believe then an isolation transformer should work fine. If the circuit won't work with an isolation transformer then that proves there is a ground loop problem with the mains grounding system.

A person could set up a mains supply to a B&L setup and simply disconnect the earth ground wire from the distribution panel to run tests. That would certainly put the potential loop to rest.

And before you say it, if you don't know how to safely disconnect that earth wire from the service panel then you have no business fooling with a B&L setup in the first place.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[level]

Hello MadMack. Don't forget that clarence has sunk about 56 or more ground rods into the ground connected at the output of his setup. That will most likely provide a pretty good ground return path back to the ground at the panel. I was able to light a 100W light bulb quite brightly from the mains hot wire by sinking a single rusty 2 foot long ground rod into the ground about roughly 30 feet from the mains panel earth ground. The conductivity of the earth where a person lives is going to be a factor in that, but a ground loop will still be a factor even with poor earth ground, as there will still be some degree of a ground loop at play.

A pure sinewave inverter will give you a reasonable sinewave, so I would suspect that won't be too much of a factor here. Some people's mains power is probably more distorted than a pure sinewave inverter. If Barbosa and Leal are legit, then I personally have not seen a replication that appears to do what they have claimed. If someone can demonstrate a Barbosa and Leal arrangement using only a battery and inverter as the input power source that will produce a lot more power out than the battery is supplying, then in that case they might well be on to something there.

[MadMack]

Level,
I do agree that an easy way to take safe measurements is with a battery inverter system. However that does not take into consideration that mains AC is not the same quality as the AC from a 3000 watt battery powered inverter. Pure sine wave or not.

A person could set up a mains supply to a B&L setup and simply disconnect the earth ground wire from the distribution panel to run tests. That would certainly put the potential loop to rest.

And before you say it, if you don't know how to safely disconnect that earth wire from the service panel then you have no business fooling with a B&L setup in the first place.

All that being said, I think you are doing a disservice when you reject Clarence's mains setups out of hand. He has stated more than once that his ground rod array is 60 to 70 feet from his service ground. If you really look at his circuit and ground array and where the mains is connected, I mean really look at the physical relations of the components, scale it all out in a layout, you can see that a ground loop is not going to be an issue. The resistance from the ground array to the service panel earth ground is too high for it to interact with his circuit. Electrons will always take the path of least resistance and current always returns to the source. The path of least resistance is through the wire from the ground array to the service neutral line connected to Clarence's B&L circuit.

Regards
Mack

[level]

Hello level,
No, I didn't make it up, I inferred it from your following statement. Big difference.

No, it is just a plain fact that if you are powering this type of setup from the mains, that you can't draw any conclusions about how the circuit is performing due to (potential) ground loop issues. Even if you try to take careful measurements, you can't draw any conclusions from those measurements due to the ground loop issue. I can't control whether people understand the significance of this. All I can do is point it out. People can do what they please. If you want to avoid the probem altogether, then the simple and straight forward solution is to power from a battery and inverter, and measure the battery terminal voltage and battery DC current draw when the battery is under load. Simple and easy.

[MadMack]

Hello level,

I have not stated that Clarence's measurements are invalid. You just made that up.

No, I didn't make it up, I inferred it from your following statement.

You have demonstrated absolutely nothing so far, and you spoke of tests done using the mains, which shows you either have no understanding at all what you are doing, or you are deliberately trying to deceive people for whatever reason.

Big difference.

Either someone is interested in taking steps to fully understand what is going on in a given setup, or they are not.

Indeed.

[level]

Hello level,
Please reread my previous post, and please point out how Clarence's measurements are invalid and how his extra power comes from the mains via a ground loop, in regards to the way he has his actual physical setup.
I don't want a heated argument here, just a rational explanation that makes sense when applied to Clarence's setup.
Best regards
Mack

Hello MadMack. I have not stated that Clarence's measurements are invalid. You just made that up. I have said that he hasn't provided sufficient test results under the proper conditions for anyone to be able to assess how is setup is actually performing. I have already pointed out where significant problems can potentially occur and how to avoid those problems, so I won't dwell on that. Either someone is interested in taking steps to fully understand what is going on in a given setup, or they are not.

[clarence]

Clarence,
Thanks for this replication, it's good to see something that can harvest energy from the planet without polluting it in return. I've been a little successful using the captor setup, but using car coils instead of toroids. Only lights a 13 watt cfl and powers the charger to the battery bank.

I'm only able to do a small setup with 5 copper grounding rods. Therefore I'm certain, as it did happen, that energy can be pulled from the earth.

Hope to add to the setup as I can,
wantomake

Hello wantomake

I am personally GLAD for your success in whatever fashion it comes.
also I hope that all of your updates prove successful until you achieve what you are looking for!
NEVER be discouraged by anything or anybody and your progress will follow.

Best of wishes, and respects Sir

Clarence

[MadMack]

You are still advising people to use the mains after it has been explained many times that the power comes from the mains via a ground loop when doing so in this type of arrangement with the hot wire connected directly to one side of the load. Please stop trying to deceive people with such nonsense.

Hello level,

Please reread my previous post, and please point out how Clarence's measurements are invalid and how his extra power comes from the mains via a ground loop, in regards to the way he has his actual physical setup.

I don't want a heated argument here, just a rational explanation that makes sense when applied to Clarence's setup.

Best regards
Mack

[level]

I've been a little successful using the captor setup, but using car coils instead of toroids. Only lights a 13 watt cfl and powers the charger to the battery bank.
I'm only able to do a small setup with 5 copper grounding rods. Therefore I'm certain, as it did happen, that energy can be pulled from the earth.

Hope to add to the setup as I can,
wantomake

Hello wantomake. If you are using car ignition coils to step up the voltage, then that doesn't sound exactly like a Barbosa and Leal arrangement, but if you can post a drawing here showing how you have everything connected, I think people here would be interested in seeing it. Are you just powering your setup from a battery and inverter, with no mains connection at all?

[level]

Hello MadMAck. What I have explained is very straight forward. Some people seem to interpret what I have said as indicating that I think a Barbosa and Leal device can't possibly work, but I have said nothing of the kind. I have pointed out where you can potentially be fooled however, and what steps you should take to avoid those potential problems. Use only battery power and measure the voltage and current on the battery and you should be good as long as you know how to do basic measurements.