COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie | Part 2

[Jbignes5]

hmmm...

I think what I will do is wait. Wait for all this to be ferreted out. Obviously someone isn't on the up and up. And until this gets worked out I will not be doing anything. I don't want to do anything till I am assured that it is indeed open source and public domain.
The one thing that leads me to believe that it is not is your waffling back and forth as to such a public domain status. First you say it is. Then you say that you will test your IP rights if this does goes commercial. It is the one thing that would stop all this from going further.
I think it is not unreasonable to ask for proof that it is indeed public domain. That would need a document to support that with verifiable credentials that support the public domain claim. This is because first you claim that if it does go commercial with Harvey then you will test your rights. That was my confusion with your earlier claims to me that it was given to the public domain then a restatement that you would test your right if Harvey would commercialize it. To me this isn't legally sound.
If you want my help in getting this out and indeed that is my intention then you need to assure me not with words on a forum but some other way that is legally binding. I am not being mean but if you want this to go forward you need to be honest and give the ones who can get this out the ability to do so without harm to those that want this in the public domain for Humanity.
So until this is in the open without drama I will stand back and wait patiently for that to be done.
Plus I never gotten anything in my pm's as of now. So my part will be on hold until I get the information plus a legally binding document that indeed says this was given to the public domain that has been properly signed and made legal.
I will not start this process and ruin my connections to get this out to find that I had no right to do so.

[b4FreeEnergy]

Invention Secrecy Act

... imposing a secrecy order like the US Title 35 Section 181-188 Invention Secrecy Act from being imposed.

Quote from (Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
“Generally, these agencies include the Army, Navy, Air Force, National Security Agency (NSA), Department of Energy, and NASA, but even the Justice Department has played this role”

Exactly what I mean, those guys do whatever they like and whatever they please whenever they want.

Quote again and even better: “By the end of fiscal year 1991, the number of patent secrecy orders stood at 6,193. Many such orders were imposed on individuals and organizations working without government support. This number shrank for each fiscal year thereafter, until 2002. Since 2002, the number of secrecy orders has grown, with 5,002 secrecy orders in effect at the end of fiscal year 2007.”

Imagine what will happen if Rosemary’s boiler will cook, not with COP17 but well take COP50 or something! What a danger for the US and world economy would that be! Imagine that you have to ‘give’ free energy to the people of the world! No ‘meters’ on it!? What a horrible thing would that be!

Human rights? Well let’s add one to the list: “Energy for free”.

Sjalom,
B

[ashtweth]

Open source is the way Refresh this page to learn about the secrecy act and why open source is what they cannot stop
many contributors from this forum on this page,jib, Rickoff, Aaron, Patrick K and many more

REFRESH
Patent Office
SIGN petition too as it helps


Ash

[witsend]

Quote from (Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
“Generally, these agencies include the Army, Navy, Air Force, National Security Agency (NSA), Department of Energy, and NASA, but even the Justice Department has played this role”

Exactly what I mean, those guys do whatever they like and whatever they please whenever they want.

Quote again and even better: “By the end of fiscal year 1991, the number of patent secrecy orders stood at 6,193. Many such orders were imposed on individuals and organizations working without government support. This number shrank for each fiscal year thereafter, until 2002. Since 2002, the number of secrecy orders has grown, with 5,002 secrecy orders in effect at the end of fiscal year 2007.”

Imagine what will happen if Rosemary’s boiler will cook, not with COP17 but well take COP50 or something! What a danger for the US and world economy would that be! Imagine that you have to ‘give’ free energy to the people of the world! No ‘meters’ on it!? What a horrible thing would that be!

Human rights? Well let’s add one to the list: “Energy for free”.

Sjalom,
B

lol Bart, It only has to cook at COP>4 and we've reduced costs and attendant pollution by some 75%. Look at the results. There are many moments of 'infinite' COP as Peter Lindemann describes it. Every time there's an actual 'recharge' cycle on the battery - we're looking at that potential. That's the real danger to our energy suppliers. That points to the distinct possibility that people could get rid of grid requirements. As Ash keeps reminding us. With that much freedom we could indeed create our own politics.

Scarey stuff.

[b4FreeEnergy]

SIGN petition

SIGN petition too as it helps
Ash

Does it really? Those suppression stories are there from the beginning of the 1900’s and probably longer but did anything change meanwhile? And we’re talking only about energy now, I have a feeling that this famous list (Army, Navy, Air Force, National Security Agency (NSA), Department of Energy, and NASA, but even the Justice Department) has a lot more under cover!

But well, you’re right doing nothing and complain doesn’t help either...
B

[Harvey]

Rosemary can you please leave that cat alone now and can we continue working on that boiler of yours? COP4 will do yes.

I don't know if improving the performance by four times will be enough to compete in the current market.

Here is a water heater already available that boasts exactly that, 1/4th the power consumption of a standard water heater:

household heat pump water heater RF-51(320L) heat pump CN;GUA products


Here is a demonstration of an induction heater boiling water:

YouTube - induction heating (water boiling)


Next is an off the shelf induction water heater. These systems do not store hot water, they heat it instantly on demand. That way you do not need to keep using power to keep the water hot all day and all night:

Induction Water Heater() - Oasis Provider Co., Ltd. in ACE Suppliers B2B Marketplace


Here is one just like it:
Induction Water Geyser


And here is a paper written on the subject from some persons in South Africa:
http://active.cput.ac.za/energy/web/...Manuel%20G.pdf


In order to be successful, you must understand the competition and be prepared to beat it. Just matching it will not provide success. It needs to be better, more reliable, safer, to compete in today's market.

[b4FreeEnergy]

Damn, the cat is gone now ...

In order to be successful, you must understand the competition and be prepared to beat it. Just matching it will not provide success. It needs to be better, more reliable, safer, to compete in today's market.

You are right, I have to do my homework and I didn’t. The thing is I’m not really interested in bringing anything on the market; I just want to see free energy at work. I would build something for my own house though and have friends coming over to have a look …

If COP4 is not enough and the zero-point energy devices do actually work (on a big scale that is) I think they can be (fine-) tuned to have a bigger COP.

I read a few bits and pieces in the link Ash just posted about the “Pattent Office”, I save the rest to read on the train to work but if only a little piece of it is true (my guess a is that a whole lot of it is true) we already have all devices and technology we need but it is simply not allowed by the famous list again to see the daylight.

We are left playing in the sand with or little devices as long as it doesn’t get too dangerous because one of the guys or girls in the sandbox found something again and they have to kick in to prevent it from being spread too much...

Maybe I ‘m way too suspicious but I have a feeling I’m not.

BIB

[Jbignes5]

I did not ask for a contract.

I did not ask for a contract of any kind. That is plainly clear. What I did ask you is that if you really want this to go ahead and end all the drama then Me and others need to know your true intentions. Period. Either this is given as a gift to all our societies and a legal binding declaration of that statement from you or it will stay right where it is and no movement will be had. The Legal binding statement has to be from you, Notarized and on file in your country and on display on such a site line the Panacea's site to refer to in order for us, being everyone in the world, to advance this with no one party to an advantage.

This is what I am being advised by anyone I talk to at the University. They are not a business but are a whole bunch of Engineers and Researching professors who could get this to the next level.

You can not say on this forum that you agree to that and any statement from you regarding your intentions is not legally binding because it can be shown that you could not be the person to which any ip rights are tied to, you have shown that you do not intend this to be open source. In your own words you state that in the case with Harvey and Fuzzy that you would contest any commercialization of this circuit.

So what is required of you to make this even to all the world is release your ip rights on the circuit only and let it be developed for the whole world. This has to be done in a legal way. That way no one person, business or government could have an advantage. All would be equal and have equal access without restriction.

This is not negotiable. It all comes down to you. Do you want this as a public domain finding or not? Do you want the world to have equal access or not? Are you in fact giving this to the whole of the Human race or not. If so then all one would need is to make a declaration that is properly and soundly legal to the whole world as a gift. Until then nothing can be done.

I am sorry to tell you that but that is what is being told to me by a full legal team. They all agree that this would negate all concerns on this. Especially where the "world" is concerned. Until you do such no one person will ever be able to legally get this out to all the masses. Once you open the gate no one could possibly attach itself to your findings.

Case in point the Linux operating system. Although there are collections for sale commercially it is Free for all to use and no one can challenge that. Not even the original developer. And it has been challenged but the attempts have failed to challenge the status as in the case of RedHat for exclusive rights.

This is the last time I will state this. Either you want it in the public domain and be truly free or you attempt to hold onto your rights and it gets squashed in that attempt.

I on the other hand have more pressing concerns which I will now get back to. Getting a Thesis on the real energy and mechanisms behind magnetics is a daunting task. But thankfully the source of my circuit is indeed in the public domain and hopefully will have a greater impact on our current situation. All of my work is Free for Humanity and hence will be available to the world without exclusion.

Good luck on your quest,
you know how to pm me so when you make a decision it will be welcomed.

jbignes5

[witsend]

I did not ask for a contract of any kind. That is plainly clear. What I did ask you is that if you really want this to go ahead and end all the drama then Me and others need to know your true intentions. Period. Either this is given as a gift to all our societies and a legal binding declaration of that statement from you or it will stay right where it is and no movement will be had. The Legal binding statement has to be from you, Notarized and on file in your country and on display on such a site line the Panacea's site to refer to in order for us, being everyone in the world, to advance this with no one party to an advantage.

What is really sad is that you have NO IDEA about the legal ramifications here. You are clearly NOT getting legal advice. I could write such an 'agreement' and withdraw it tomorrow. Let me see if I can make this plainer. I CANNOT LEGALLY BE HELD BOUND TO ANY CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT WHERE THERE IS NO REPROCITY.

This is what I am being advised by anyone I talk to at the University. They are not a business but are a whole bunch of Engineers and Researching professors who could get this to the next level.

Really? If they are a 'whole bunch of Engineers and Researching professors' then I'm reasonably certain they can bend their minds around this fact. again. I cannot be legally bound to any contract or agreement where there is no reciprocity!

You can not say on this forum that you agree to that and any statement from you regarding your intentions is not legally binding because it can be shown that you could not be the person to which any ip rights are tied to, you have shown that you do not intend this to be open source.

TRUE. The range of potential breach is enormous. As Bart as mentioned. I may not be me. I may be an imposter. The onus of proof would be on you to prove that I am me. That would be impossible.

In your own words you state that in the case with Harvey and Fuzzy that you would contest any commercialization of this circuit.

And I would say it again and as often as required. INDEED they may not be exempt from any claim I may make in the event that they intend to commercialise this device.

So what is required of you to make this even to all the world is release your ip rights on the circuit only and let it be developed for the whole world. This has to be done in a legal way. That way no one person, business or government could have an advantage. All would be equal and have equal access without restriction.

You will have to redefine the nature of a gift before I could comply to this your demand.

This is not negotiable. It all comes down to you. Do you want this as a public domain finding or not? Do you want the world to have equal access or not? Are you in fact giving this to the whole of the Human race or not. If so then all one would need is to make a declaration that is properly and soundly legal to the whole world as a gift. Until then nothing can be done.

On the contrary. Plenty can be done. I know of two entirely independent groups who are already advancing this. A third is being negotiated. And I hope that many more come into play. I suspect that this technology will progress, regardless.

I am sorry to tell you that but that is what is being told to me by a full legal team.

LOL. Then get your FULL LEGAL TEAM to design this CONTRACT. Golly.

They all agree that this would negate all concerns on this. Especially where the "world" is concerned. Until you do such no one person will ever be able to legally get this out to all the masses. Once you open the gate no one could possibly attach itself to your findings.

This statement is illogical.

Case in point the Linux operating system. Although there are collections for sale commercially it is Free for all to use and no one can challenge that. Not even the original developer. And it has been challenged but the attempts have failed to challenge the status as in the case of RedHat for exclusive rights.

If this is true then what are you worried about?

This is the last time I will state this. Either you want it in the public domain and be truly free or you attempt to hold onto your rights and it gets squashed in that attempt.

Are you threatening me?

I on the other hand have more pressing concerns which I will now get back to. Getting a Thesis on the real energy and mechanisms behind magnetics is a daunting task. But thankfully the source of my circuit is indeed in the public domain and hopefully will have a greater impact on our current situation. All of my work is Free for Humanity and hence will be available to the world without exclusion.

Please give us the LINK. LOL

you know how to pm me so when you make a decision it will be welcomed.

I prefer to keep any discussion with you PUBLIC.

EDITED

[b4FreeEnergy]

To be convinced or not

So easily convinced?

Don’t worry, I’m not convinced about anything and I will do the measurements and calculations myself as soon as I can. This post was merely about being annoyed by the “famous list” rather than anything else. My feeling about COP and indeed it is only a feeling that as soon as you manage to have COP>1 it will be possible to have a lot more too.

Mazzeltov,
B

[witsend]

Don’t worry, I’m not convinced about anything and I will do the measurements and calculations myself as soon as I can. This post was merely about being annoyed by the “famous list” rather than anything else. My feeling about COP and indeed it is only a feeling that as soon as you manage to have COP>1 it will be possible to have a lot more too.

Mazzeltov,
B

Thanks goodness. And muzzeltov indeed Bart. I can now rest easy. I was waiting in for your reply.

[Jbignes5]

Just so you know.

Quoted from Aaron:

"And no, you don't have a RIGHT to do anything here. This is a private forum and it is not a democracy. Anyone can be removed for violating the posting rules. This is our home and if someone comes into my house and pees on the rug, I'll walk them to the door. It is as simple as that and is is because of that - that this forum has such high integrity in the posts here, lots of empowering information, open sharing, no spam, etc..."

So one last time even by Aaron's own admission and contrary to your opinion this is not a Public forum.

It doesn't matter anyways I am done with this subject. You are obviously lying in the face of everyone when alluding to this being public domain. The only thing I can think of is that you are using everyone to further your thesis based off of the work of others.

You plainly admit that you are not an experimenter and your technical knowledge in that area is lacking. Yet you profess to understand the workings behind the technical workings of a circuit that could not have been made by a non experimenter. This is where I get off this train wreck. I will stick to the Thesis of my own that actually works in theory and in practice.

jbignes5

[jpentp]

Rose I for one want this to move forward

I think its clear Harvey has lost faith, Glen along with him. OK we get that don't you think you should refocus your considerable skills on another project you feel as passionately for as you once did this project?

Rosemary is fully capable of advancing this circuit and theory all on her own.

Jumping in and bringing up the same points over and over again seems to look like you have a vested interest in killing this setup, I don't know it might be personal? Whatever it is it seems played out. Harvey and Glen no longer support this project we got that.
Rose still believes in it (as do I) and she in fully capable of promoting this endeavor on her own. The civilized thing to do is you go your way and let Rose go he on way.
Rose I don't say much but I do support you and I just wish you could spend more time working on and promoting the circuit and much less time defending yourself form the same allegations over and over again.

Good Luck Rose Now let the flaming commence

[witsend]

I think its clear Harvey has lost faith, Glen along with him. OK we get that don't you think you should refocus your considerable skills on another project you feel as passionately for as you once did this project?

Rosemary is fully capable of advancing this circuit and theory all on her own.

Jumping in and bringing up the same points over and over again seems to look like you have a vested interest in killing this setup, I don't know it might be personal? Whatever it is it seems played out. Harvey and Glen no longer support this project we got that.
Rose still believes in it (as do I) and she in fully capable of promoting this endeavor on her own. The civilized thing to do is you go your way and let Rose go he on way.
Rose I don't say much but I do support you and I just wish you could spend more time working on and promoting the circuit and much less time defending yourself form the same allegations over and over again.

Good Luck Rose Now let the flaming commence

jpentp

WELCOME and thanks for the support. I'm always intrigued to see what if anything gets through to the public. If you still see no 'danger' in Harvey's intentions then I've failed. But be that as it may. If I'm also just coming across as petulant and piqued - then I'm definitely doing this technology a disservice. And rather than helping the cause - I'm hindering it? God forbid.

[Aaron]

private forum

Exactly. Membership is prescribed. MEMEBERSHIP IS PRESCRIBED ON EVERY FORUM ON THE INTERNET. It is nonetheless open to view by the public. That is what makes it a PUBLIC FORUM. When and if this forum ever closes these chapters to public view - then only can you claim that it is not a Public forum. Golly.

What I said applies for the most part to most forums.

There are some forums where membership is automated for anyone that
signs up. They're usually not moderated. These heater threads are a
special case and I want my personal involvement limited to the bare
minimum. If anyone has an issue, send a PM to the admin account.

At Energetic Forum, we manually do it. We do not selectively pick who gets
in and who doesn't. We approve EVERYONE. Sometimes it takes a bit but
that is because it is time consuming and there is usually a backlog.
Obviously we don't approve bots and members from known spammer IP
lists.

It is a private membership forum that is viewable by the public and any of
the public (listed as guests) that are not members are free to
apply for membership and they'll get granted. Guests cannot make posts
or see attachments until they are in.

It is public only in that sense that this is a building with glass walls and
outside observers can see everything going on. But you can walk by a
private golf club and watch the members play but it is definitely a private
club. This is definitely a private forum even though the info is publicly
available.

This is an archive that will exist even if this forum is no longer active. I
think we'll be around a long time.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...geticforum.com
I'm not sure why the archive stops at that date indicated but in any case,
the wayback machine records quite a bit.