Use for the Tesla Switch

[blackchisel97]

SC

Hi guys,

I managed to fiddle a bit with scalar charger last night. I used small spool with leftover wire, 23mH. I tried smaller inductance but spikes were smaller. Battery remained unchanged during my 6hr nap. Please excuse picture quality, seems like camera has mind on her own. This is 3 transistor setup. Scope shot between E-C.




Vtech

[nvisser]

Scalar charger

I am currently experimenting with the series scr, 2 X 47uf caps and a 1mH coil with a 6v 5ma lamp in series.
The lamp goes very bright between 5 and 10Khz and I get a clean signal and spike on the scope.
When turning the duty cycle down a bit I find a point were the signal start to vibrate
( bulb stars flickering , still bright). I turned it back a bit for a clear signal and when disconnecting the lamp the amplitude of the spike rose from 46v to 56v.
I left it with and without the lamp but the battery voltage goes down slowly over time.
It looks as if the series caps and coil goes into series LC resonance as I measure the same signal and amplitude over the coil and the two caps.
If I try to calculate it with the resonance freq. formula using the series cap value or the parallel cap value and the coils value but I get two complete different resonance frequencies of around 500Hz and 1khz. Not even near the 10khz signal where I get the bright light.
Confusing stuff
I also went down to 9 Hz to see if I can get the battery to charge. Also no joy. I will try again overnight
John you said:
In the slow position is when the charging takes place as the battery needs time to gain charge. More later as I watch it.
You close the circuit when you want to charge the battery

[Jetijs]

Hi guys,

I managed to fiddle a bit with scalar charger last night. I used small spool with leftover wire, 23mH. I tried smaller inductance but spikes were smaller. Battery remained unchanged during my 6hr nap. Please excuse picture quality, seems like camera has mind on her own. This is 3 transistor setup. Scope shot between E-C.


Vtech

Great job Pretty impressive ringing you got there, I guess you are on the right track

[blackchisel97]

Great job Pretty impressive ringing you got there, I guess you are on the right track

Thanks Jetijs, I hope. I have 2x470uF caps. I used 2 Toshiba PA transistors (don't have anything good to try it ) and MJE13005 in the middle. I had to change SG oscillator cap from 2uF to 20nF. With low switching couldn't get what I have now. There is no bulb in parallel with choke. I'll work on this later today.

Thanks

Vtech

[blackchisel97]

I am currently experimenting with the series scr, 2 X 47uf caps and a 1mH coil with a 6v 5ma lamp in series.
The lamp goes very bright between 5 and 10Khz and I get a clean signal and spike on the scope.
When turning the duty cycle down a bit I find a point were the signal start to vibrate
( bulb stars flickering , still bright). I turned it back a bit for a clear signal and when disconnecting the lamp the amplitude of the spike rose from 46v to 56v.
I left it with and without the lamp but the battery voltage goes down slowly over time.
It looks as if the series caps and coil goes into series LC resonance as I measure the same signal and amplitude over the coil and the two caps.
If I try to calculate it with the resonance freq. formula using the series cap value or the parallel cap value and the coils value but I get two complete different resonance frequencies of around 500Hz and 1khz. Not even near the 10khz signal where I get the bright light.
Confusing stuff
I also went down to 9 Hz to see if I can get the battery to charge. Also no joy. I will try again overnight
John you said:
In the slow position is when the charging takes place as the battery needs time to gain charge. More later as I watch it.
You close the circuit when you want to charge the battery

Hi nvisser, your question wasn't addressed to me but I hope you don't mind my 2 cents - from what I understand, we can maintain battery on the same level and power the load or close circuit - short the load and charge battery with spikes. What do you think?


Vtech

[lamare]

Yes the inductor is important but it is hard to tune I use the light across it to see what is going on.

Maybe it's an idea to add an extra opto-transistor circuit to control the inductor separately?

I mean, if the inductor is creating the spikes that do the magic in the battery, then this magic should be much easier to control if you separate the "spiking timing" from the series/parallel switching timing. For the creation of a spike, you only need a very short "on" time, while the switching between the battery's role can be very low frequency.

While this might be tricky to control using analog circuits, it should be a piece of cake with the micro-controller version....

If the spikes really are the magic, then this would be very important to know, because then the battery switching could then be done at such low frequencies that there wouldn't have to be any problems to do that with relays. And that would mean you could really draw serious amperage from the batteries without voltage drop and without needing unaffordably heavy transistors.

[Inquorate]

Maybe it's an idea to add an extra opto-transistor circuit to control the inductor separately?

I mean, if the inductor is creating the spikes that do the magic in the battery, then this magic should be much easier to control if you separate the "spiking timing" from the series/parallel switching timing. For the creation of a spike, you only need a very short "on" time, while the switching between the battery's role can be very low frequency.

While this might be tricky to control using analog circuits, it should be a piece of cake with the micro-controller version....

If the spikes really are the magic, then this would be very important to know, because then the battery switching could then be done at such low frequencies that there wouldn't have to be any problems to do that with relays. And that would mean you could really draw serious amperage from the batteries without voltage drop and without needing unaffordably heavy transistors.

@ Lamare - I agree, I've been thinking more along the lines of using a tesla switch to run a bedini coil

I started a blog / thread here a while ago because the idea is different from the TS. Not much on it yet but check it out...

Conditioned bedini capacitors discharged to each other from series to parallel - Heretical Builders

I've been watching your comments closely and I think we're on the same page re theory and modus operandi.

Love and light

[ldissing]

Guaranteed

If the spikes really are the magic

I have NO hesitation in saying, "I will guarantee that the spikes are the magic." The one thing that every engineer tries to suppress is the magic that causes batteries to recharge themselves. If you don't have the spike, you have a system that will use power and discharge the battery. Now, if the timing is right, you can recharge the battery and use power simultaneously. So, the key is the timing and the magic is in the spike. Get these right and you will see the results...and JB will agree with this I have no doubt. I probably should not say what JB can say more eloquently, but I've read enough from him to know that this is the case. I've seen batteries recharge with these circuits. I've seen totally dead batteries run these circuits. The spike is the reason (magic) and the timing is the key.

Just because the spike exists is not magic in and of itself. It has to be at the right time. Over potentialize the battery and grab some current from it while the ions are moving in the recharge direction. The battery doesn't even realize that you've take the current...it's in recharge mode. Before they can reverse, you hit it with a spike again and keep them moving in recharge mode....and then you do it all over again.

Leroy

P.S. Watch JB disagree with me! I certainly hope not, or I will have to slink away into my quiet little hole and never peek my head out again.

[blackchisel97]

Maybe it's an idea to add an extra opto-transistor circuit to control the inductor separately?

I mean, if the inductor is creating the spikes that do the magic in the battery, then this magic should be much easier to control if you separate the "spiking timing" from the series/parallel switching timing. For the creation of a spike, you only need a very short "on" time, while the switching between the battery's role can be very low frequency.

While this might be tricky to control using analog circuits, it should be a piece of cake with the micro-controller version....

If the spikes really are the magic, then this would be very important to know, because then the battery switching could then be done at such low frequencies that there wouldn't have to be any problems to do that with relays. And that would mean you could really draw serious amperage from the batteries without voltage drop and without needing unaffordably heavy transistors.

It makes alot of sense. I built another SC to experiment with without changing previous setup. This time I used 2N2222 transistors (from what I remember they can go negative too - please correct me if I'm wrong) and MJE13005 between the caps. I made 2 banks of fast photo caps, 80uF each and 6 in each bank, paralleled >480uF. I tried couple dozens of different inductors and finally used 24V relay as a choke. I was able to lower oscillator frequency down to single digits (Hz). I took dead 9V 6F22 from recycle bin and measured 7.27V. I have 16V spikes @ low switching and voltage climbed 0.01V within three hours. Not much but circuit is running. I had to use bigger cap - 2 x 0.470uF in series. The thing is that I can't have any light in parallel with coil. The smallest one I have is 60mA and it kills the spike and causes battery to drop I think it could be good idea to control base current. The only adjustment which makes a difference is duty cycle pot. I'll try LAB battery and some more LC combinations. Tricky circuit, indeed!


Vtech

[slloyd]

2n2222 can go negative, you're not wrong.

source: KeelyNet on negative resistance - 04/07/00

ps. long time watcher, first time poster. am busy with personal life activities otherwise i would be very eager to help out with the group project. in the mean time.. i just keep up to date by quick post reads so that when i have free time again in the new year i won't be that far behind when i start my own experiments.

all the best,
slloyd

[nvisser]

Hi nvisser, your question wasn't addressed to me but I hope you don't mind my 2 cents - from what I understand, we can maintain battery on the same level and power the load or close circuit - short the load and charge battery with spikes. What do you think?

Vtech

Shorting the load means shorting the coil that causes the spikes. It also means very low impedance. When doing that the transistors go very hot. Theoretically it should work as you keep on dropping the high voltage from the 2 series cap on the battery.
I tried it a few times but the trans. started to cook and the battery voltage drops dramatically

[blackchisel97]

Shorting the load means shorting the coil that causes the spikes. It also means very low impedance. When doing that the transistors go very hot. Theoretically it should work as you keep on dropping the high voltage from the 2 series cap on the battery.
I tried it a few times but the trans. started to cook and the battery voltage drops dramatically

Darn language barrier! What I meant to say, by closing circuit I understood drawing power from the load, such as light or motor vs. just using as inductance to generate spikes. What if...we get battery formatted and converted into sort of elekret we wouldn't need h.v spikes anymore, just little excitation to "make battery think" that she is getting charged. This would allow us to draw from the load without disturbing battery. Is this makes any sense? Probably not. When I read John's comment again I'm sure he meant something else. I think it's a bed time for me

@slloyd Thanks and Welcome

Thanks
Vtech

[blackchisel97]

Just added short clip to my previous post

I built another SC to experiment with without changing previous setup. This time I used 2N2222 transistors (from what I remember they can go negative too - please correct me if I'm wrong) and MJE13005 between the caps. I made 2 banks of fast photo caps, 80uF each and 6 in each bank, paralleled >480uF. I tried couple dozens of different inductors and finally used 24V relay as a choke. I was able to lower oscillator frequency down to single digits (Hz). I took dead 9V 6F22 from recycle bin and measured 7.27V. I have 16V spikes @ low switching and voltage climbed 0.01V within three hours. Not much but circuit is running. I had to use bigger cap - 2 x 0.470uF in series. The thing is that I can't have any light in parallel with coil. The smallest one I have is 60mA and it kills the spike and causes battery to drop I think it could be good idea to control base current. The only adjustment which makes a difference is duty cycle pot. I'll try LAB battery and some more LC combinations. Tricky circuit, indeed!



Vtech

Excuse the noise of radiant charger in the background or turn the volume down

[JANGYD]

How the 4-battery circuit works?

I asked myself how the 4-battery circuit works?
From my experiment with the 3-battery circuit I suspect that the 4-battery
circuit can be different from the 3-battery circuit, meaning that the 4-battery
circuit is simply not the full switch compared to the half switch of the 3-battery circuit. I am not sure about it

I am serious on 'Spike and Timing' from Leroy's post.
Spike can be understood easily but timing, I think, may not be any frequency.
I suspect it can be the switching timing, exact timing with narrow band.
When it comes to the 4-battery circuit,
the high potential(24V simply) side may not charge the low potential side(12V).
This is different from the 3-battery circuit.

I will test my understanding next week when ordered parts deliver and
report my test.

Your Regards,

JANG

[lamare]

I have NO hesitation in saying, "I will guarantee that the spikes are the magic." The one thing that every engineer tries to suppress is the magic that causes batteries to recharge themselves. If you don't have the spike, you have a system that will use power and discharge the battery. Now, if the timing is right, you can recharge the battery and use power simultaneously. So, the key is the timing and the magic is in the spike. Get these right and you will see the results..

So, we all seem to agree that the spikes are doing the magic. Great!

However, I seriously doubt you can "recharge the battery and use power simultaneously" with a *single* battery, and here's why.

What the magic really does, is to boost a well known process known as "dielectric relaxation". I've posted about this quite a lot. This process can be seen with any normal capacitor. Charge a dielectric capacitor, an elco, short it out very shortly, wait a few seconds and measure the voltage. It should read something in the order of up to 10% of the voltage it was charged with before you shorted it out.

What causes is, is the way the capacitor works. In between the plates, there's a dielectricum, a material that can be polarized, charged internally. This charging, this polarization is indendent from the amount of current you put in the capacitor, since the dielectricum is an insulator. It depends on the electric field inside the capacitor, which depends on the applied voltage. Now once this dielectricum is polarized, it cannot de-polarize instantaneously. It takes a little while. That is this "relaxation" effect.

So, when you have a polarized dielectricum, either inside a battery or inside a cap, your capacitor/battery becomes like a vacuum cleamer, suckimg up any charge it can get, even from the surrounding air if you just let is sit on your bench. That is the spontaneous recharging effect some of you have seen.

Now if you feed a cap or battery with spikes, what you really do is super-polarize the dielectricum inside, whatever side or shape that might have in the internals of the cap/battery. After that, for some time, the cap or battery will wan to suck up charge. So, you could say that for some time it will strengthen any charge current you put in, which results in the cap/battery getting charged, while you have to pay much less for it in terms of energy you have to put in order for the thing to get charged.

So, that's what we're after. We want to polarize the dielectricum inside using a spike, so the dielectricum pays the energy bill for us and gets the thing charged. With the TS circuit, this effect can be so strong, you can even power a load with the charging current and still the battery charges itself, because of the polarized dielectricum inside, which in the end really is what provides the energy you power the load with. And that energy is provided one way or another by the vacuum itself, it's not created out of nothing.

However, I have the feeling there's a back side on the medal. Somehow I think that if this polarization is too strong, it becomes a p.i.t.a. once you want to use the charge from the cap/battery. Because, if this polarized dielectricum continues to keep sucking at your charges, it makes you pay when you want to discharge the cap/battery.

So, then timing becomes the key issue. Your spikes must be strong enough to polarize the dielectricum long enough to make it charge the cap/battery, preferably trough a load, but not so strong that the dielectricum stays polarized that long that it prevents you from using the charge you have gathered in the battery.

OTOH: you might get around this problem automagically in the TS circuit, because the batteries that are being charged may be able to suck the charge out of the discharging batteries despite of this. After all, the charging batteries are in parrallel, while the discharging ones are in series....