My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[markonah]

a new member here, may be accepted to study here

[iankoglin]

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G'day DamionLiu
You must be on the wrong List your post has nothing to do here please delete your post
Regards
Ian Koglin

[menace22]

Need Parts

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

[sampojo]

Re: Kogs p6261 poss error/Comm Production

Kogs, I am leaning toward disagreement.

Quoting your second paragraph:

In your posts above you only show changing/Reversing the wires so the current goes in the opposite direction and this is confusing because You still show the polarity of the coils the same you need to recognize that the polarity of the coils are also changedand therefore you cannot follow just what is happening.
I have here 2 drawings showing what happens when you change the direction of the current.
The first shows the Negative from the top/drive end of the motor here is wound to run CCW now runs in reverse

My last chart only shows taking the winding of any particular coil another half turn to move its connection point to the other side of the motor, just to get the chage of direction the wire approaches my connectors. Ufo clearly supported this thought as he questioned why I was showing the direction of rotation opposite from Dgm 1

I have editted a comment in my post 6257 to make sure readers get this. Now if I am wrong let me know so I can make it right.

Otherwise I continue on the pains of not having a clean commutator to work with as I have devised a hopefully robust solderless connection method. I ask readers and Ufo to comment on whether the mounted connector in the picture below looks strong enough.



I am making a doubled 19ga tuning fork style connector mount that joins my 2 comm segments into 1, as it is 40-segment commutator for a 20 pole motor, designed to meet standard asymmetric requirements. I use a little solder on cleaned magnet wire to hold it together for shaping. It then acts like a flux for the brazing metal I use. Wrapping my brass connector is the last step, and no heat needs to be applied to the commutator.

I have installed one connector. It seems to pass strength needs as it is very solid feeling, and when I stamped it in, I seem to have gotten enough of the copper commutator to seal over the wire, even though it did not look possible when I started. I stamped the beads sticking out at the end of the fork on the other commutator where I had to install one wire, but dont want to here as it will loosen the primary stamp again and I don't know how many of those I have in a given installation. The beads will keep it from pulling out also. If they loosen I would restamp again, and would be an easy thing to inspect on a built motor.

So how's the stamp look to you, UFO?
TIA

And finally:

a new member here, may be accepted to study here

My advice, start from post 1, advancing based on your comprehension. Build a small motor, and do the same for the "my-motors-got-me" thread.

Good luck!

[Cornboy 555]

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

Hello Menace22, are you wanting custom design laminations?, or standard small motor laminations?.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Lamination stacks...

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

Hello Menace and Welcome,

Steel Lamination is a raw product, it comes in large sizes, normally comes in 8X4 Feet sheets in US. Steel is cheap, so it is no "business" to sell small portions on the Internet or Ebay...

You can check in your closest Steel Wholesaler (they sale big T and H Beams for construction, as many other patterns, including sheets...but, if they have also a shop inside area, then you may ask for left overs from previous cuts...

Good luck


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Sam

Kogs, I am leaning toward disagreement.

Quoting your second paragraph:


My last chart only shows taking the winding of any particular coil another half turn to move its connection point to the other side of the motor, just to get the chage of direction the wire approaches my connectors. Ufo clearly supported this thought as he questioned why I was showing the direction of rotation opposite from Dgm 1

I have editted a comment in my post 6257 to make sure readers get this. Now if I am wrong let me know so I can make it right.

Hey Sam,

Honestly, I did not notice any difference in your "edited post" diagrams...

Otherwise I continue on the pains of not having a clean commutator to work with as I have devised a hopefully robust solderless connection method. I ask readers and Ufo to comment on whether the mounted connector in the picture below looks strong enough.



I am making a doubled 19ga tuning fork style connector mount that joins my 2 comm segments into 1, as it is 40-segment commutator for a 20 pole motor, designed to meet standard asymmetric requirements. I use a little solder on cleaned magnet wire to hold it together for shaping. It then acts like a flux for the brazing metal I use. Wrapping my brass connector is the last step, and no heat needs to be applied to the commutator.

I have installed one connector. It seems to pass strength needs as it is very solid feeling, and when I stamped it in, I seem to have gotten enough of the copper commutator to seal over the wire, even though it did not look possible when I started. I stamped the beads sticking out at the end of the fork on the other commutator where I had to install one wire, but dont want to here as it will loosen the primary stamp again and I don't know how many of those I have in a given installation. The beads will keep it from pulling out also. If they loosen I would restamp again, and would be an easy thing to inspect on a built motor.

So how's the stamp look to you, UFO?
TIA

And finally:




My advice, start from post 1, advancing based on your comprehension. Build a small motor, and do the same for the "my-motors-got-me" thread.

Good luck!

It looks good Sam...and strong...However, the only thing I do not understand is... why are you taking the tabs/plates to attach/clamp to your coils ends towards the Inner side of commutator and not outwards where there is so much space?

I really do not see the point...running all wires towards the interior, closer to shaft...gives you all kind of possible problems, besides being very uncomfortable to attach, clamp wires to brass plate in that zone, there is no way to check connections with a meter for future diagnosis...plus being closer to a naked shaft...could make short circuits or sparks to ground.

Maybe you have it all figured out...and coming up with a heck of idea...so...surprise me/Us...


Take care Sam...maybe the super cold weather have you "learning in disagreement"...


So Warm Regards friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Mag3??!!

Hello Menace22, are you wanting custom design laminations?, or standard small motor laminations?.

Regards Cornboy.

Hey Cowboy...sorry, Cornboy..

Where The HECK is our MAG3??!!

Kogs is in Australia...He started his Imperial WAY after you started this work...and by now Kog's Imperial Machine is riding all over the land of down-under!!

Regards, and just kidding...I know you are busy friend.


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Kogs, I am leaning toward disagreement.

Quoting your second paragraph:

My last chart only shows taking the winding of any particular coil another half turn to move its connection point to the other side of the motor, just to get the chage of direction the wire approaches my connectors. Ufo clearly supported this thought as he questioned why I was showing the direction of rotation opposite from Dgm 1

I have editted a comment in my post 6257 to make sure readers get this. Now if I am wrong let me know so I can make it right.

Good luck!

G'day Sampojo
You can draw anything you want and say it is doing something even though it is NOT doing what you say.
Please try this
The only thing you changed in your drawings was the arrow showing rotation and the position of the connections to the commutators being reversed this means that the current to the coils is reversed
You call the commutator connections Front and Back UFO calls them Top and Bottom

Please examine this diagram closely


This is the convention UFO has stated he uses in all his drawings
here you see the positive wire coming from the top
The part winding that is CCW is producing a SP and the part winding being CW producing a NP
Now on your armature where the brushes connect apply a small voltage say 3v with the positive to the top and the negative to the bottom (only use a low voltage as the coil would heat up)
Now take a magnet and check the polarity of the armature windings
Next reverse the current and now using a magnet check the polarity of the armature windings
Notice that the poles are now reversed
This change in polarity is not shown in your drawings

this is what you have done in the two drawings in your post you did show the direction the arrow changing BUT YOU DID NOT show the change in the polarity of the Armature by changing the connection from front to back you are really changing the direction of the current from top to bottom and this is what makes the Motor turn in the opposite direction.

I hope this makes things clearer
Kindest regards my friend

Kogs trying to be helpful

[iankoglin]

Good Day Kogs!

Excellent work my friend!

Yeah, those motors are running super smooth, non stopping torque!...And of course Torque MATTERS...we are referring to A MOTOR here...and motors are to render mechanical work...

I wanna see that Imperial kicking some A**!...

Now Kogs, I see you already made the brush connections internally in order to take out just four cables...two red, two black wires coming out of motor for a Four Brush system, then I assume you have connected Input in Parallel and Output (Generator) in series...am I correct?

Any ways, here are a couple of tests I would like you to film for Us here, on this same 1000W Razor.

1- Try Pulsing this Motor with the old 555 oscillator you excited your coils in my first Thread here...and test same things...RPM's, Amps and V Out (Generator)...while trying to stop it with the wood sticks...please see if you could do it with three voltage values.

2- Try this connection below:

[IMG][/IMG]

You already tested the CONNECTION 2 on your video above...but ple4ase do the Right Upper CONNECTION 1...then measure all parameters again.

First try it "linear" or straight from batteries (no pulse)...then try it pulsing motor, same connection, same measurements.


All this testing could also be applicable to your Imperial Beast as well...


...and be careful with those knees when you are lifting Imperial or Mecc Alte...they are heavy machines.


Excellent, beautiful work my Dear Friend!...and many, many thanks for sharing all this videos freely.


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO and Team
I did as you asked
in #1. above
I tried the 1000w motor pulsing it with the coils as you suggested and I was able to stop it with my little finger

in #2.
I connected the battery as shown in Connection#1 above and the amps draw was way off the 5amp scale

I did not make a video as I had all things set up in my workshop and things got covered in fine saw dust and when I blew all the dust out of the Imperial I started it up and the dust on the comms caused sparking I need to clean them up I can't do any more testing until I finish making dust from my wood working projects

Kindest regards my friend

Kogs still here

[Cornboy 555]

Hey Cowboy...sorry, Cornboy..

Where The HECK is our MAG3??!!

Kogs is in Australia...He started his Imperial WAY after you started this work...and by now Kog's Imperial Machine is riding all over the land of down and under!!

Regards, and just kidding...I know you are busy friend.


Ufopolitics

Howdy, UFO, Pardner, its more than just busy at the moment, the last three months have been the driest for 110 yrs, in our district, which requires more work than even flooding does.

Also, my wife for 36yrs, who left me 3yrs ago, and took her income with her, to do her own thing, is needing half of the farm, so i am preparring the place for sale, bummer

Rest assured when the heavens open up, i will be finishing the motor, it's killing me , not being able to get to it.

PS. can't wait till KOGS drives his EV to my place, without charging it, it's only a few thousand miles.

All the Best, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

G'day UFO and Team
I did as you asked
in #1. above
I tried the 1000w motor pulsing it with the coils as you suggested and I was able to stop it with my little finger

Hello Kogs,

I do not understand why this connection#1 took away torque?...

Your 1000W is a Four Brush type right?

Then you are using exactly same input you already had...except you are connecting through jumper, the Negative of your input to the positive of your generator side...then reading output from Negative of Generator and Positive of Input side.

This connection should not disrupt/upset your torque, since you are using same typical Input.

What this connection will do, is to obtain more than twice the Input Voltage at those two terminals.

Maybe the example I set with diagonal crossed Input-Output and being just two brushes kind of confused you...could it be?

in #2.
I connected the battery as shown and the amps draw was way off the 5amp scale

I did not make a video as I had all things set up in my workshop and things got covered in fine saw dust and when I blew all the dust out of the Imperial I started it up and the dust on the comms caused sparking I need to clean them up I can't do any more testing until I finish making dust from my wood working projects

Kindest regards my friend

Kogs still here

Now, in this connection #2 you DO loose/lower some torque and speed...that is normal...but you get much, much lower amps draw...it is like an "Econo-Drive"...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I 've got the solution!!

Howdy, UFO, Pardner, its more than just busy at the moment, the last three months have been the driest for 110 yrs, in our district, which requires more work than even flooding does.

Also, my wife for 36yrs, who left me 3yrs ago, and took her income with her, to do her own thing, is needing half of the farm, so i am preparring the place for sale, bummer

Rest assured when the heavens open up, i will be finishing the motor, it's killing me , not being able to get to it.

PS. can't wait till KOGS drives his EV to my place, without charging it, it's only a few thousand miles.

All the Best, Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

Sorry, but no partner, cause your wife may want half of this Technology if she finds out...

However, I've got a solution...

What about if you tell her about MAG3...what a machine it would be...then sell it to her for the price of her share of your Farm, plus maybe some extra ca$$h ?























Just kidding my friend...trying to make you laugh...You should be going through a lot of crap there...I feel sorry what you are going through.

Take care


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Kogs update

Hello Kogs,

I do not understand why this connection#1 took away torque?...

Your 1000W is a Four Brush type right?

Then you are using exactly same input you already had...except you are connecting through jumper, the Negative of your input to the positive of your generator side...then reading output from Negative of Generator and Positive of Input side.

This connection should not disrupt/upset your torque, since you are using same typical Input.

What this connection will do, is to obtain more than twice the Input Voltage at those two terminals.

Maybe the example I set with diagonal crossed Input-Output and being just two brushes kind of confused you...could it be?



Now, in this connection #2 you DO loose/lower some torque and speed...that is normal...but you get much, much lower amps draw...it is like an "Econo-Drive"...


Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO and Team
@UFO I did Just as I thought you said
Try Pulsing this Motor with the old 555 oscillator you excited your coils
I just connected the motor to the output of the coils but on reading again I think you meant to just use the 555 timer Oscillator
I have this connected permanently connected to the CLF bulbs a unit I will try again later I am so busy at the moment trying to finish my Tricycle as I think I have an extra Job (paying one) pending

Here is some pics what I am working on
The Building Of My Tricycle Slideshow by Kogs1 | Photobucket
I have just dismantled it as I have to epoxy it all over with 2 coats then paint it.

I have built is so it will carry 2 people My test driver said she wants to call it Nessie and paint it GreenI don't know why
To be able to run this on the road I need to meet road regulations and therefore it must have mudguards Head and tail and Indicator lights and adequate braking and it must not fall apart If I do not want to register it must be equal under 250wattsor less this being a 1000w motor after modification it will run @24v or 36v drawing say 5 amps perhaps under load say 6 amps

We will see and
Kindest Regards

[sampojo]

Re: Kogs Post 6271; check what UFO analyzed

For info see Kogs post 6271

I highlighted our point of disagreement in red.

Hello Sam,

I have always instructed to use the CONNECTING DRIVE SIDE of Shaft as the Positive Input Commutator as a REFERENCE.

That term is RELATIVE though, the side you decide to feed positive could be changed to bottom commutator (opposite to driving end of shaft)...and I believe that is ALL you have done here...If so, that will NOT affect the rotation sense nor the Coils Polarity for Pairs at all, You are just changing the way to feed through commutators the coils...as long as you are using the same wiring sequence from coils/pairs when you originally wound them from start to end, then rotation would be the same as originally conceived

But if you swap the way wires were supposed to be fed...then your rotor coils would be opposite in magnetic polarity...Rotation sense would be reversed.

Regards

Ufopolitics

But Kogs, thanks for you interest and help. Your diagrams are very clear. When I get the motor wired this time I think they will be helpful about learning to predict the motor direction of rotation by gaining a better understanding myself and remember what the polarity of a coil will be given its specifications. Not sure which direction is right, but I understand what Ufo has stated.

I definitely have picked up for the first time how to design and build a motor so that the direction it will turn should be based on these hookup guidelines of power input and the main drive side of the motor.

Let me know your thoughts... and thank you.