The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

Hello Turion,
Got it spinning? Any data to report?
Thanks in advance,
bi

Turion is out till the new years traveling the globe. Also his machinist must have a calendar of festivities to follow. Let people alone bozo. cut the clown show bye, don;t be a screwge

[Turion]

I did make a trip to AZ but am home waiting for the machinist to fix a couple things. He told us a couple weeks. Meanwhile, I have been working on my other project. Very happy with that one so far. But here’s where I could use some help bi, if you are really interested in helping.

I have a 120v DC motor running on constant voltage supplied by a circuit. That circuit is powered by an inverter running on a battery to supply it with 110-120 volts., CONSTANT I convert that high voltage AC to DC and manipulate it. I began by connecting to the wall and using a bridge to get high voltage DC to experiment, but now I am at the testing stage. The circuit needs high voltage DC to work and I got tired of charging all the batteries up to conduct experiments. I believe, through observation and some testing, that I am returning power to the battery to be re-used. But how do I accurately measure that?

I could run the 120v DC motor off a bridge rectifier connected to the inverter, but the voltage to the motor would be much higher, or I could run the motor directly off the battery, but the voltage would be much lower, so neither of those allow me to accurately measure time of run, which is only an indicator when exactly the same voltage and amperage is supplied to the motor.

Here is what I am thinking, but am open to other suggestions.


I could plug a kilowatt meter into the inverter and connect the circuit to it to see how much power is output before the inverter kicks off, then recharge the battery to full, attach the bridge rectifier to that same kilowatt meter and run the motor until the inverter kicks off and compare power output to the load. Does that seem reasonable? If I am returning power to the battery the motor should run longer before it shuts off and the inverter would show outputting additional power to the motor through the kilowatt meter. The motor would NOT run at the same speed for the two tests, but the kilowatt meter would show a difference in how much power came out of the inverter. Let me know what you think or if you have a better idea.


Right now I am running that motor (with this circuit) on roughly 26 volts DC at .6 amps for almost exactly 2 hours before the inverter shuts off. Without knowing anything about the batteries I am using, this really isn’t MEANINGFUL information, but it is a fact.

[bistander]

I did make a trip to AZ but am home waiting for the machinist to fix a couple things. He told us a couple weeks. Meanwhile, I have been working on my other project. Very happy with that one so far. But here’s where I could use some help bi, if you are really interested in helping.

I have a 120v DC motor running on constant voltage supplied by a circuit. That circuit is powered by an inverter running on a battery to supply it with 110-120 volts., CONSTANT I convert that high voltage AC to DC and manipulate it. I began by connecting to the wall and using a bridge to get high voltage DC to experiment, but now I am at the testing stage. The circuit needs high voltage DC to work and I got tired of charging all the batteries up to conduct experiments. I believe, through observation and some testing, that I am returning power to the battery to be re-used. But how do I accurately measure that?

I could run the 120v DC motor off a bridge rectifier connected to the inverter, but the voltage to the motor would be much higher, or I could run the motor directly off the battery, but the voltage would be much lower, so neither of those allow me to accurately measure time of run, which is only an indicator when exactly the same voltage and amperage is supplied to the motor.

Here is what I am thinking, but am open to other suggestions.


I could plug a kilowatt meter into the inverter and connect the circuit to it to see how much power is output before the inverter kicks off, then recharge the battery to full, attach the bridge rectifier to that same kilowatt meter and run the motor until the inverter kicks off and compare power output to the load. Does that seem reasonable? If I am returning power to the battery the motor should run longer before it shuts off and the inverter would show outputting additional power to the motor through the kilowatt meter. The motor would NOT run at the same speed for the two tests, but the kilowatt meter would show a difference in how much power came out of the inverter. Let me know what you think or if you have a better idea.


Right now I am running that motor (with this circuit) on roughly 26 volts DC at .6 amps for almost exactly 2 hours before the inverter shuts off. Without knowing anything about the batteries I am using, this really isn’t MEANINGFUL information, but it is a fact.

Be glad to help. Difficult without a schematic or at least a diagram, and component specifications. But here's a few thoughts (facts).

A battery is at idle, or charging, or discharging. "Returning" power doesn't make sense. If battery is:

1) idle. The voltage at battery terminals is equal to the open circuit battery voltage and battery current is zero.

2) charging. Battery voltage is higher than open circuit battery voltage and current direction is into positive battery terminal and out of negative battery terminal. The battery is a load to the power source of the circuit, converting electric energy to chemical and heat energy.

3) discharging. The voltage at the battery terminals is less than the open circuit battery voltage and battery current direction is out from the positive battery terminal and into the negative battery terminal. In this case, the battery is an power source in the circuit delivering energy to loads by converting chemical energy to electric energy. A fraction of the battery converted energy is converted into heat, considered a loss.

That's it. Multiple choice. 1, 2 or 3. Pick one. A battery is just a circuit component.

Other thoughts:
Most cheap DC to AC inverters are modified sinewave meaning near square wave. As such, many AC devices and instruments do not function as intended, or maybe not at all, when powered by a modified sinewave inverter. Other AC appliances use a rectifier and filter on the AC source and run just fine on modified sinewave. Resistive loads loads are ok but use RMS voltage and current measurements to figure power and energy.

Motors running at no-load are poor loads for experiments due to the low power. Loading motors to increase power can be troublesome, difficult to keep constant or repeatable.

bi

[BroMikey]

pure sine wave inverters are cheap, this it needed to run ac motor windings

use a 1500w for best eff. this is only 1 piece of your puzzle

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39373862005...cc6fcee8aa5508

24v 36v 48v here

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144249095252?_trkparms=ispr%3D5&hash=item2195ea8454:g:4AcAAOSwkSJhanGs&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACgPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS9d9gBrkNbRQtRn8MVXnYktieggSViilKdp5WV5TLMatd5FNEPIHF1f0pmNjjN10BAJwRLWdZgVmJMch59ll2Dbq1Hs%252BvDqg5VZCuK6Kuds3YBknG8x2yIAos58MZGvtsP5H2ghXgGO752fgxIKBnpqM9QcpWZGiF%252Fnvs1FoMLZT6L5UPjzf1dIrEI2hgkoLKko3%252B66coLOHlfTUXN3wuJdGLRD3sFUbFdw6E2QD2lv9SxGyfld9oTGxLBzF9y4%252BxMeeFfe1nlI0H1nC4qKrJqV3jQgZJy1xhEJskJlER%252BH924SYUyRFMZI8UI4I4L2XXlqx25ViJb9FBmnLOknjiq%252BwFOTOsXTS5CCMUOE%252FgwTuJOne%252FbRMZK5%252Fn0V6dHKd1XqdnJjuqCHFunmK%252FocjfIUggh3%252FfmMiEPa%252FVQ4buo3XtPpHbSbkXPQtYr5UrpzvUfuidedbn48hf2m1ezz75SnRZG0X3g%252FA6eNl70M%252BZoUlQLxDLwnHOTx3kNA0%252FTIC9FAYdgE6WK9l8ywIFVq6H7%252BUroXAFKwwuOQKLtUEnVlSXdPAzQh3jRr9NJXgNiW0brGHvJh1f3GgITXDHRhM6OFxArpHuvUuMuvveRrfaagrtLRW0LheIbzuJ%252BD2xcWyOIU05pNzXY4hKrkCqzXrZR6Ia7ttP1KdCC7qRg4XM4H%252FijRYiSmTB7x7t3zqlSDk2y7K6pwhhwLf465OLtWAdGwar%252F0%252BMWOS37SFosm5gy5L5sy7rTduuepRNwj6OM01HgOcEZ9RJyHVGdJvTbIbXbqnylMEnzgtVbjgN2nQueTU%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABlBMUILyg4q0Xw

[bistander]

We use many overunity devices today. But most people are incapable of looking outside the box they are in. The electron cascade of a CRT, (cathode Ray Tube of the old TV's), or the NST, (Neon Sign Transformer). LOOK at a typical NST. The overunity is printed RIGHT ON THE LABEL.
Example:
Input- 12vDC @ 3amps = 36 watts, (per second)
Output- 20,000V @ 30ma, (.003)

Do you SEE the overunity there? NO? Why not? Because they don't WANT you to. And Electrical Engineers don't LOOK for it.

The question is, do we READ and do we UNDERSTAND, or do we just go on our merry way because we are so used to "ONE cycle per second" because that is how we have been conditioned?

But one cycle per second is NOT HOW NEON SIGN TRANSFORMERS OPERATE!! LOOK IT UP!!!!! They conveniently leave THAT information off the label, but do a little research.

"Electronic neon transformers change the frequency of the input voltage from the typical 50-60hz to around 20,000hz using switching electronics. This allows for a much smaller, albeit more complicated, design."

Unless my calculator is on the blink, 20,000 V at .003 amps x 20,000 cycles per second (instead of ONE) is 1,200,000 Watts per second. But what do I know. I'm not an electrical engineer. Just someone who LOOKS for something unusual, and then figures out how to make it work for them. 36 watts (per second) in and 1,200,000 watts per second out is a decent gain, wouldn't you say? And I'd say having a device that outputs 33000 times the input to begin with is a good first step to building an OU system. Wouldn't YOU? Especially when you operate between the positives to minimize losses and understand how to generate electricity as well as recover the power you used to generate.

Can you understand WHY I feel like the time I am spending on getting the generator working just to prove the point to bistander is NOT worth my time? But I will. The machinist thought it might be done Wednesday, but now he says to "check back" first part of next week sometime.

There are folks out there who have figured out Don Smiths's stuff and got it working, putting out loads of energy. Free energy is coming, and all you little Dutch boys with your fingers in the dike of progress best learn to hold your breath for a really long time, cuz the dike is about to break in a really big way.

I don't happen to agree with Thane on some things, so have not followed his work, but I know what is possible. I have seen it.




Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

And Happy Holidays to Turion and everyone.

Just starting to read and contemplate a reply, so I will save his post in this thread. More about this later, but an obvious error at the beginning. "Output- 20,000V @ 30ma, (.003)"

In customary notation, 30ma. (.003) would imply that thirty milliamperes is equal to three thousandths of something, presumably three thousandths of an ampere.
But actually,
30ma = 0.03A
or
30ma is equal to three hundredths of an ampere.
bi

[Turion]

So it is more OU than I said. Oops. My bad.

[bistander]

So it is more OU than I said. Oops. My bad.

Please define OU. What is Overunity? What is Unity? Please look it up and provide references.

Where else, aside from you, might we find watts per second used?

Where did you come up with "Volts * Ampere's * frequency" and what does it represent?

Thanks,
bi

[Turion]

No thanks. I have no desire to debate semantics with you. If you can’t figure out how a neon sign transformer works. What it’s input is and what it’s output is, you shouldn’t be playing with one anyway. Leave it to those who can.

[bistander]

No thanks. I have no desire to debate semantics with you. If you can’t figure out how a neon sign transformer works. What it’s input is and what it’s output is, you shouldn’t be playing with one anyway. Leave it to those who can.

BS and lies. Like always from you. You have no idea what you're talking about. You just throw this crap out. You can't answer those basic questions which I pose.

You'll get somebody killed.

And you're scared to properly test your generator and post data. Because it does not work. Never has. All been a big lie from you, hasn't it?
bi
edit:

Semantics is the study of reference, meaning, or truth.

I came across that looking at the definition of semantics. No wonder, you avoid truth, meaning and reference at all cost.

[BroMikey]

Looks like BYE is not going to play nice like a good little boy. The transformer HV and the square used for the math escapes him just like all the facts do. His little mind can't conceive of OU even tho the govt has been flying around in UFO's 70 years

Watch out for the dog bite. after all he would have to turn in all his university T-shirts. no no no the yuppies say teacher told me

[Turion]

As usual, you cannot address the CONCEPTS or the FACTS you have been shown, so you resort to name calling. You try to pick apart the details because you can't disprove what I stated. I will be the first to admit that I do not always use the terms correctly, and have stated that before. But that doesn't make the RESULTS false now does it? Neon sign transformers output more power than they take in.

OU has been discussed many times here on the forum. You know what it refers to. If you don't, you can look it up.
If you need "volt" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
If you need "amp" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
If you need "frequency" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
You demand I define terms so you can argue about my definitions instead of focusing on the FACTS. You are a disinformation spreader. Or, manure spreader if you like.

As for my generator...if you ever actually BUILT anything of value instead of spending all your time attacking the work of others you would understand that when you are actually BUILDING things, it requires, adjustments, revisions, rebuilds and quite often changes in basic components to have a working prototype. Often it is not MAKING it work, but KEEPING it running that is the difficult part.

My generator will soon be back from the machinist. Then I will assemble it to make sure everything is working correctly. Then I will take it to the independent lab for testing. I'm quite anxious for that to happen so I can FINALLy shut you up.

Please name ONE single thing that YOU have built and shown here on the forum to further the goal of this forum, which is to explore possible ways to build free energy devices. You can't. Because all you ever do is attempt to destroy the reputations and the work of others. It's a really PATHETIC existence, but whatever floats your boat. Personally, I have no idea how you manage to live with yourself.

The problem is, there will ALWAYS be people like me who cannot be discouraged or demeaned because we know what is possible. I have seen it on many, many occasions. So you are just annoying background noise. Blah, blah, blah, Blahstander

[BroMikey]

I can sympathize with the naysayers because they never get a solid answer. here is what we all get, no sound, nothing. it is for testing is what we have been told for 30 years. only testing, but it's OU? HV is another excuse as a danger or the MIB are coming. out of 100's of thousands of entries.

it is a beauty but not an OU device

http://www.rexresearch.com/smithdon/DonSmith.pdf

[bistander]

As usual, you cannot address the CONCEPTS or the FACTS you have been shown, so you resort to name calling. You try to pick apart the details because you can't disprove what I stated. I will be the first to admit that I do not always use the terms correctly, and have stated that before. But that doesn't make the RESULTS false now does it? Neon sign transformers output more power than they take in.

OU has been discussed many times here on the forum. You know what it refers to. If you don't, you can look it up.
If you need "volt" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
If you need "amp" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
If you need "frequency" defined, you shouldn't contribute here
You demand I define terms so you can argue about my definitions instead of focusing on the FACTS. You are a disinformation spreader. Or, manure spreader if you like.

As for my generator...if you ever actually BUILT anything of value instead of spending all your time attacking the work of others you would understand that when you are actually BUILDING things, it requires, adjustments, revisions, rebuilds and quite often changes in basic components to have a working prototype. Often it is not MAKING it work, but KEEPING it running that is the difficult part.

My generator will soon be back from the machinist. Then I will assemble it to make sure everything is working correctly. Then I will take it to the independent lab for testing. I'm quite anxious for that to happen so I can FINALLy shut you up.

Please name ONE single thing that YOU have built and shown here on the forum to further the goal of this forum, which is to explore possible ways to build free energy devices. You can't. Because all you ever do is attempt to destroy the reputations and the work of others. It's a really PATHETIC existence, but whatever floats your boat. Personally, I have no idea how you manage to live with yourself.

The problem is, there will ALWAYS be people like me who cannot be discouraged or demeaned because we know what is possible. I have seen it on many, many occasions. So you are just annoying background noise. Blah, blah, blah, Blahstander

Don't you think that a person should be able to define the terms he uses in a statement? That is what I requested from you. What do you mean by "watt per second", volt*amps*hertz and OU. If you can't answer then say so. I don't know what you mean, or what anybody means with the first two. OU typically refers to efficiency greater than 100% (like you claim for your generator), but can also refer to other things, like COP greater that one.

Me, I've done plenty. And I have done several experiments and posted them on this forum including the one battery generator system and anticogging (7th grade) test, both for your benefit. I have received numerous PM thank-you notes for information and reference posts from members. But this isn't about me. It is about a statement which you made. You made the statement, I thought you would want to discuss it. Let's discuss it. To intelligently discuss a subject, the parties need to understand each other, right? So all I ask is for clarification of what you mean by a few obscure terms. What's wrong with that? Correcting an error like .003 helped you didn't it? Or being off by a factor of ten won't matter much when working with 20kV?
bi

[BroMikey]

this is a working circuit no meters just a test jig 10 years back

[dragon]

That was a common mistake that everyone overlooked and perpetuated - don smith started the overunity deception stating this was the actual output of the neon transformers. They are actually rated Open voltage and short circuit amperage. This doesn't mean it will produce V*I output. I have several of them I've used in various projects and it actually states this fact on all but a couple of them. There is no overunity there... but you can believe what you want and spend another 10 years parroting the same lie and chasing ghosts ...