Electromagnetic Induction in Solenoid Generator Coils

[peper10]

Where it`s getting??

The question is??What do you guys want?
Both of you have touch something.
What you want is voltage right??
Cause if you want current as cody`s schematic,you gonna cause drag.
So.I`m lost about what is desirable??????
Or what is the corner stone of this tread?


Alain D

[cody]

"You can not have current when the voltage is zero" Yes i agree to a point. You can not have current "flowing" if voltage is zero. But i dont think that doesnt mean you cant have pure current potential. That current has no voltage to "push" it, so it cant move, thats why there is no light at tdc, your picture is a great example of that. At tdc induced magnetic field is at its highest. Magnetic field= current, that is standard knowledge. Take static electricity for an example, we say its pure voltage and no current so it can do no work. Is it so hard to believe the opposite condition can exist were we have pure current with no voltage which also can do no work. If we can not agree on this, that is fine because i think we do agree on most of it, and i thank you once again for bringing this topic up. Peper10 is right, all this is good to understand but how is this helping us again. I guess test will have to be done at all points of the wave to determine what is the most beneficial.

[Sephiroth]

"You can not have current when the voltage is zero" Yes i agree to a point. You can not have current "flowing" if voltage is zero. But i dont think that doesnt mean you cant have pure current potential. That current has no voltage to "push" it, so it cant move, thats why there is no light at tdc, your picture is a great example of that. At tdc induced magnetic field is at its highest. Magnetic field= current, that is standard knowledge. Take static electricity for an example, we say its pure voltage and no current so it cant do no work. Is it so hard to believe the opposite condition can exist were we have pure current with no voltage which also cant do no work. If we can not agree on this, that is fine because i think we do agree on most of it, and i thank you once again for bringing this topic up. Peper10 is right, all this is good to understand but how is this helping us again. I guess test will have to be done at all points of the wave to determine what is the most beneficial.

Yes we can have voltage without current but the reverse isn't true (imo)... I don't believe there is such a thing as pure current potential. In fact it seems like it is an oxymoron since potential is voltage. It is like saying there can be wind without a pressure gradient. (note. we can have pressure without wind)

But yes, we will have to agree to disagree on that.

I really don't like taking this thread off topic for so long as I am interested in the circuits being discussed. I invite the admin to move the offending posts to an appropriately named thread if they feel it is necessary.

Sorry everyone

[Inquorate]

Current and voltage

The reason voltage peaks when current is null is explained on my posts on Aromaz thread last 2 or 3 pages.

However, with no voltage also there is no current. Same reasons. When no voltage and no current, all energy transfer is in reversal of magnetic field. Same reason.

Sephiroth, darkwizard, I urge you to read Aromaz thread.

Same energy level, 3 ways it is stored in change of state of aether spin.

That's my two cents worth.

[Sephiroth]

Electromagnetic Induction in Solenoid Generator Coils

This is the proposed thread for the tidy up of the Autogenerator thread.

Please do not post in this thread yet.

[Aaron]

posts moved

All the posts in this thread came from the Adams Autogenerator thread.

[Sephiroth]

Thanks Aaron!

Brief update... Darkwizard has said that a bulb will still light if a reed switch is put on the generator coil that is positioned to close at TDC... where I say voltage/current is zero...

In response I have performed the test and here is the video...

YouTube - Sephiroth vs Darkwizard : : The Saga Continues

I encourage Darkwizard to perform the test as well.

[Joit]

Its anyway hard to show imho, if there is current at the Point,
There is a Magnetfield moving around, and a lot Electrons, what fly around.
You can even get an induction at the Reedswitch, what gives current, when it is not perfect centered and isolated.

[Sephiroth]

Its anyway hard to show imho, if there is current at the Point,
There is a Magnetfield moving around, and a lot Electrons, what fly around.
You can even get an induction at the Reedswitch, what gives current, when it is not perfect centered and isolated.

I agree... I am satisfied that my set up is correct, but I don't blame Darwizard if he feels I have done something wrong since he can't inspect it, which is why I encourage him, and anyone else wanting comfirmation, to do the test themselves... if you don't have an oscilloscope, a strobe is a valuable tool

[cody]

Hey seph,
I wasnt sure weather to post this here or in the other thread. Something just occured to me. You last video was great, but there is one thing not accounted for. The way you have it wired, its going to be behaving like a standard generator coil, with the exception that the switch is turning it on and of at a certian point. Well the issue i have here is this, we are not using a conventional generator coil circuit, you will have to change your circuit to get the results we are getting. I believe the video does a great job at displaying that conventionaly no current flow is present at tdc, but we are playing with a something different here. Your circuit is lighting when the switch closes(conventional), ours lights when the switch opens. A neon would be a better bulb for this than LED's due to the high voltage. I think its safe to say everyone has learned a lot from your videos and input. Perhaps you could do some more videos but doing it with our circuits to help us understand if it is just tdc, or beyond that point so we better understand this thing. Your motor is set up perfectly for displaying when things are firing, what a brilliant idea. I dont know if it will help to determine what the current is actually doing, but i think at this point just determining if tdc is where the magic is happening is a more practical goal. If you feel like playing with it here is a simple circuit that will get you playing with it. Pulse duration is still going to be an issue with the reed switch though

[Sephiroth]

Hi Cody, Great idea! I will give it a go tonight

I don't know if a neon will glow bright enough for the strobe to be visible on film, but I have an idea how to get around that

[Sephiroth]

Right, I'm afriad I can't make a video of this one as it is quite fiddly and requires two hands to flick the switches and position the reed switch properly but this is the result (thorough tests haven't been carried out yet)

getting the reed to close during the dark patch will light the neon so the relatively low voltage/current just after TDC is still enough to generate spikes over 90 volts...

then I tried pulsing it (using the same pulse width) on top of the voltage peak after TDC and it lit the bulb more consistantly (the neon flickered somewhat when firing on TDC)

but the most observable power appeared to come from pulsing on the voltage peak prior to TDC... though I think that may be because my coil wasn't positioned at a perfect angle so the induced voltage peak prior to TDC may have been higher than the voltage peak after TDC...

This is the schematic I used (borrowed from cody ) with a switch so I can flick between the generator powering the strobe or shorting the coils...



The main problem I had was trying to get the reed switch to close for a very short pulse duration... I don't think this type of switching is ideal if we want a very brief on time as the reed wants to stay closed for the entire time the magnet face is in front of it so pulse duration is limited to a minimum of the width of the magnet face (in this experiment)

So, conclusion of this experiment is that shorting the coil with a reed switch over TDC can light neon bulbs.

[cody]

Seph, excelent idea on that switch to go back and forth with your circuit and mine to determine where you were positioned at, i was wondering about how we could do that, good job. Ok so we got the start of some good work going on now. Some more questions that come to my mind are this: Did you notice that shorting the coils puts a load on the motor(slows it down). Im wondering how adjusting the position of the switching < or > tdc will effect drag as well as where the most power is coming out vs drag on motor(where its most efficient). I think its going to get more complicated from this point on. You will probally need a tachometer. I did do quite a few drag tests myself, but i wasnt set up to compare it with power coming out at the time. I also didnt have your Led circuit to tell me where exactly i was firing at. But as far as drag is concerned, i can tell you i got the least drag by putting a nonpolarized capacitor in series with the switch, i posted that circuit on the other thread. If you are going to play with that, you have to match the capacitor value to inductance and frequency (resonance)to get the max output High voltage, just change the capacitor value until the neon starts lighting up, it will probally be below 1uf. Ill have to start playing with your Led circuit, but my motor is going through a makeover right now so it might be a while. Here is a idea im going to use to get that pulse duration down, basically replace the reed switch with a transistor and use a bedini circuit to adjust pulse duration, triggered off a seperate generator coil. I think testable, repeatable, quantifiable results from these tests will prove more valuable than everyones theorys Perhaps we should continue this back on the other thread.