My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[DadHav]

I don't know if you can see my setup for testing UFO's modified motor with all the junk in the background. (See picture) It's a lever arm with the spring scales on one end and a belt that goes around a pulley on the motor, and on the other end is a chain and a cable tightener that lets me torque down and increase the tension between the pulley on the motor and the spring scales. And MAINTAIN steady pressure.

First I tested a standard motor on 24 volts and torqued it down until the amp meter read 6 amps. Then took an rpm reading and a deflection reading on the scales. I recorded the starting voltages on the batteries under load, ran it for two minutes and recorded ending voltages under load.

Then I charged the batteries, let them rest for an hour and did the same thing with UFO's modified motor. All along he has been telling me it isn't fair to compare the two motors when they are running on 12 volts because the design he gave me was meant to out perform the stock motor at the listed specs of the stock motor which is 24 volts at 6 amps. If you can accept that, (which has been hard for me, because I though a motor would run at any voltage from 12-24, and it should be better at ANY voltage) then he is right. It is a DOG on 12 volts, but on 24, it DOES kick butt. While the start up amp draw was high for a second, when I torqued down and ran it at 6 amps the rpm was higher and the deflection greater. It used no more power during a two minute run than the standard motor. When you run it at 24 volts, he has something. I'm going to retest both motors today and try and shoot some video, but it's a pain in the butt trying to video those spring scales, the tach, and the volt and amp meter all at the same time. Believe me. I made several videos of the testing yesterday and none of them looked good. But I will give it another shot this morning, since my only other goals for today are to bake some bread and mow the yard.

Dave

Dave, I think you got a few peoples attention with what you just said. Let me make sure I understand fully. You say you ran the stock motor at 6 amps on 24 volt. After a 12 volt test with the modification you ran the modified motor at the exact 24 volts and 6 amps as the standard. The results where you obtained more RPM and torque with the modified motor correct? When you say the modification didn't use any more power are you basing the statement on the wattage was the same (ohms law) between both 2 minute runs? If that's the case modified motor should make a car go faster and further or an ultralight aircraft stay in the air longer. That's just hypothetical, but you know what I mean. That's in part the end result you want to see right? Where these tests done with a load on the generator side? I didn't notice if you mentioned that.
Good job in my opinion if I'm reading right.
John Hav

[wonza]

Hello Mike and UFOPOLITICS. From yesterday till end of today these motors are on VIP SALE! Item Number : G18945, Unit Price: $1.29. This 12VDC motor is 3" long x 1.67" Diameter. It has a 4mm diameter x 0.35" long shaft and rotates at 3100 RPM when powered with 12VDC at 0.320A (no load). Has removable shield around body. High torque/heavy duty! Reg. $3.49 Limit 5. However they were not able to confirm that these motors are 5 pole. Well what the heck, I still bought 5. Possiblely they are 5 pole as suggested by you Mike. If they are 5 pole motors then they will be I think ideal candiates for the UFOPOLTIC'S 2nd Generation of ASYMMETIC 5 POLE MOTORS using Y copper wire wind. My first RS Motor was successful which I will present soon on this list. I thought this SALE INFO will be useful to members.
VIP SALE! Massive 12VDC Motor-The Electronic Goldmine

Kindest Regards

I like their special pricing: Unit Price: $1.29. Buy 6 for $500.00 each

[Turion]

DadHav,
I will let everybody judge for themselves. Here is my test on YouTube of the unmodified motor, which I just completed. As you will see, my issue with these tests is always trying to control as MANY of the variables as possible. In this instance, the spring scales jump around so much that it is hard to get a TRUE idea of the reading. So your ("accurate") guess is as good as mine. One of the things I would LIKE to do as a test is put a known amount of weight on the end of the chain on my lever arm and then see what the amp draw and RPM's are of the two motors. This would tell me that with a known resistance pulling against the motor, which one has the higher rpm's and at what amp draw. But I want to get the test with the modified motor out of the way first. Then maybe UFO can comment about that idea for a test.

Standard Motor torque test - YouTube


Oh, and for those who want to do the math (That would NOT be ME!!!!) the circumference of the wheel I am using is 8 1/2 inches exactly. And rotation is clockwise, which should relieve tension on the front spring scale and add to the back spring scale.

One of the batteries is already charged and I am charging the second one while I mow yards and clean out rain gutters. As soon as the second one is charged I will let them rest for one hour and repeat the test with the modified motor. I will post it as fast as I can. I hope the video was good enough that you guys can get what you need out of it. At the end of my next video, I swear I am going to pan around my closet of a work shop so you can see just how hard it is to get anything done in that space! LOL

EDIT: Second Battery is charged and it is 1:50 my time, so at 2:50 I will go down and set up the second test and film it...posting shortly thereafter.

Dave

[DadHav]

tach

DadHav,
I will let everybody judge for themselves. Here is my test on YouTube of the unmodified motor, which I just completed. As you will see, my issue with these tests is always trying to control as MANY of the variables as possible. In this instance, the spring scales jump around so much that it is hard to get a TRUE idea of the reading. So your ("accurate") guess is as good as mine. One of the things I would LIKE to do as a test is put a known amount of weight on the end of the chain on my lever arm and then see what the amp draw and RPM's are of the two motors. This would tell me that with a known resistance pulling against the motor, which one has the higher rpm's and at what amp draw. But I want to get the test with the modified motor out of the way first. Then maybe UFO can comment about that idea for a test.

Standard Motor torque test - YouTube


Oh, and for those who want to do the math (That would NOT be ME!!!!) the circumference of the wheel I am using is 8 1/2 inches exactly. And rotation is clockwise, which should relieve tension on the front spring scale and add to the back spring scale.

One of the batteries is already charged and I am charging the second one while I mow yards and clean out rain gutters. As soon as the second one is charged I will let them rest for one hour and repeat the test with the modified motor. I will post it as fast as I can. I hope the video was good enough that you guys can get what you need out of it. At the end of my next video, I swear I am going to pan around my closet of a work shop so you can see just how hard it is to get anything done in that space! LOL

EDIT: Second Battery is charged and it is 1:50 my time, so at 2:50 I will go down and set up the second test and film it...posting shortly thereafter.

Dave

Hey Dave, I watched your video and noticed something. Check me again on this. It looked like you where getting a tachometer reading that was higher with the load test being applied. That wouldn't be likely, would it? Your tachometer looks alot like the one I use, but mine needs to have a piece of reflective tape on the wheel or shaft. Any other metallic surface gives me false readings. I usually spray my rotor or shaft with black paint then add the reflector. Is there a chance you might be getting a false reading from the pulley?
John Hav.

[Ufopolitics]

Dad Hav...

Hey Dave, I watched your video and noticed something. Check me again on this. It looked like you where getting a tachometer reading that was higher with the load test being applied. That wouldn't be likely, would it? Your tachometer looks alot like the one I use, but mine needs to have a piece of reflective tape on the wheel or shaft. Any other metallic surface gives me false readings. I usually spray my rotor or shaft with black paint then add the reflector. Is there a chance you might be getting a false reading from the pulley?
John Hav.

Hello Dad Hav,

That is a Laser Tach...it does not need reflective tape...the one you have is an Infra Red Tach...from the 70's... ...just kidding...

They are more accurate than IR Tachometers...very little chance of error there.

Regards

Please don't get upset on your Tach age... ...I have IR also...I am trying to get the laser...but too expensive, however Bob French posted here a place you could get them by 15.00 USD...No one can beat that price...


Ufopolitics

[mklimesh]

They are 5 pole and have a nice commutator and brushs's.
I've been waiting all month for them to come on sale to order more (+_+)


Mike Klimesh

Hello Mike and UFOPOLITICS. From yesterday till end of today these motors are on VIP SALE! Item Number : G18945, Unit Price: $1.29. This 12VDC motor is 3" long x 1.67" Diameter. It has a 4mm diameter x 0.35" long shaft and rotates at 3100 RPM when powered with 12VDC at 0.320A (no load). Has removable shield around body. High torque/heavy duty! Reg. $3.49 Limit 5. However they were not able to confirm that these motors are 5 pole. Well what the heck, I still bought 5. Possiblely they are 5 pole as suggested by you Mike. If they are 5 pole motors then they will be I think ideal candiates for the UFOPOLTIC'S 2nd Generation of ASYMMETIC 5 POLE MOTORS using Y copper wire wind. My first RS Motor was successful which I will present soon on this list. I thought this SALE INFO will be useful to members.
VIP SALE! Massive 12VDC Motor-The Electronic Goldmine

Kindest Regards

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dave...

DadHav,
I will let everybody judge for themselves. Here is my test on YouTube of the unmodified motor, which I just completed. As you will see, my issue with these tests is always trying to control as MANY of the variables as possible. In this instance, the spring scales jump around so much that it is hard to get a TRUE idea of the reading. So your ("accurate") guess is as good as mine. One of the things I would LIKE to do as a test is put a known amount of weight on the end of the chain on my lever arm and then see what the amp draw and RPM's are of the two motors. This would tell me that with a known resistance pulling against the motor, which one has the higher rpm's and at what amp draw. But I want to get the test with the modified motor out of the way first. Then maybe UFO can comment about that idea for a test.

Standard Motor torque test - YouTube


Oh, and for those who want to do the math (That would NOT be ME!!!!) the circumference of the wheel I am using is 8 1/2 inches exactly. And rotation is clockwise, which should relieve tension on the front spring scale and add to the back spring scale.

One of the batteries is already charged and I am charging the second one while I mow yards and clean out rain gutters. As soon as the second one is charged I will let them rest for one hour and repeat the test with the modified motor. I will post it as fast as I can. I hope the video was good enough that you guys can get what you need out of it. At the end of my next video, I swear I am going to pan around my closet of a work shop so you can see just how hard it is to get anything done in that space! LOL

EDIT: Second Battery is charged and it is 1:50 my time, so at 2:50 I will go down and set up the second test and film it...posting shortly thereafter.

Dave

Hey Dave...great test!

I am "squaring" all data...and everything falls under correct parameters...except RPM's:

I am trying (in another screen to respond the Math) to calculate the results...but I have to agree with Dad Hav on the RPM's...I believe they are way too high...so it is throwing out a 330% Efficient Motor...LOL...
Now the only thing that will throw that number are the RPM's...
I really do not think with that pitch sound Motor was going almost 9000 RPM's...when you were applying that pull down...

Anyone else have any comments on this...?

Or is it 889.8 RPM's?...I did not see any points on Tach...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Turion]

Wow! That's a good thought. I had reflective tape on the pulley, but I didn't paint the wheel black. Will remember to do that next time. I really struggled with getting good readings for you guys as my next video will testify to. I dang near gave up, and I ended up putting the camera down a couple times to deal with stuff, but hang in there. All the data is there if you wait until the end...except the ending voltages. I shut the camera off, but then snapped a picture. They were 12.64 and 12.59. By the way, on the video it sounds like I don't know a volt from an amp. Unless I've been drinking, I really DO.

I have to tell you, the RPM's on this modified motor are so far out of this world it vibrates everything off my bench. My batteries were jumping around so bad it was pulling the clips off and I had to use "L" brackets to secure stuff in place so I could keep it all wired together long enough to do the testing. It makes a difference when you have all the wires on the armature connected like they are supposed to be.

If you build a big one of these and fire it up,you best hang onto your underwear!!

UfO modified motor torque test - YouTube

Since I still have this on the bench, I will hit that wheel with some black paint and pull 6 amps on the pulley setup and video the rpm's again. It will take me some time to get the stock motor back on the bench, but I will do that one too. But just measure rpm's at torqued to 6 amps...not all the other measurements. Ok, modified motor 2750 under load...3905 running free. Standard motor 3610 running free 2967 under load.

I gotta run get cleaned up, but I will charge the batteries and redo the test first thing Monday, now that I know how to make it not jump all over the place when I try to torque down on it.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dave

Hello Dave,

Dave what can I say Man!!...You have tried very hard to get it all measured, tested...excellent try...great tests

Now, I was the one who suggested-designed that Dyno lever deal...but I tell you...we are going to need digital scales ...the needles vibrates so much there... that it is impossible to obtain a clear reading...we would be guessing...

Either Digital (I know you have one, but could not get the second one... )...Or they could be like the ones Peter uses on His video...that are Linear...However, I was checking on some Bait & Tackle Shop and they have them...but are too rough...never as "soft" as the ones on Peter video...those are "Scientific Grade" my friend...and that (I suppose) have to do with the vibration on needles...if they were "Oil Filled Gauges" will be awesome...like in Racing Cars...but I do not think they make them like that...

The other thing I noticed was that the wheel have some border edges on both sides...and if the belt overlaps on this side walls...is not good, as it will stick...and make more vibrations...so I will try to narrow the belt width a bit till it seats just on flat side of wheel...

The other issue is the Tachometer...there is something wrong with it, it gives crazy readings sometimes too high, I mean way too high...and in other times it "jumps" from too many different levels...that we can not have an "Average Value"...I was laughing watching that last video...LOL...You sounded like a Bingo Caller...29, 39, 54, 45...23...28...... . And I saw it!... the Tach goes crazy..maybe wheel painted black could be the solution...a FLAT Black...not Glossy...or it will reflect...

The Calculations for the Output depends too much on the RPM's accuracy...if they are wrong the whole test will be wrong.

But nice try my friend...have a nice weekend!

By the way Your Asymmetric Machine sounds awesome!!...it is a RAGING BULL Dave...LOL


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Good Idea Dave!

DadHav,

I will let everybody judge for themselves. Here is my test on YouTube of the unmodified motor, which I just completed. As you will see, my issue with these tests is always trying to control as MANY of the variables as possible. In this instance, the spring scales jump around so much that it is hard to get a TRUE idea of the reading. So your ("accurate") guess is as good as mine. One of the things I would LIKE to do as a test is put a known amount of weight on the end of the chain on my lever arm and then see what the amp draw and RPM's are of the two motors. This would tell me that with a known resistance pulling against the motor, which one has the higher rpm's and at what amp draw. But I want to get the test with the modified motor out of the way first. Then maybe UFO can comment about that idea for a test.



Dave

Hello Dave,

I think that is a good idea, to add a given same weight to both machines at lever...to see Amp draw and RPM's...that is another way to check them!

Actually... you will not need to use the scales right?...If the force applied would be the same to both...

I would start adding weights to Modified, since it has more Torque...then same weight added to Original...If you do the other way around Mod could jump the weight...because it will be "Too Light Weight"...or "Feather Weight" for it...



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Lightworker1]

They are 5 pole and have a nice commutator and brushs's.
I've been waiting all month for them to come on sale to order more (+_+)


Mike Klimesh

Thanks Mike for confirmation. I look forward to starting work on the UFOPOLITICS 2nd Generation 5-Pole-Asymmetic Motors as soon as I receive the shipment.

Kindest regards

[DadHav]

Hello Dad Hav,

That is a Laser Tach...it does not need reflective tape...the one you have is an Infra Red Tach...from the 70's... ...just kidding...

They are more accurate than IR Tachometers...very little chance of error there.

Regards

Please don't get upset on your Tach age... ...I have IR also...I am trying to get the laser...but too expensive, however Bob French posted here a place you could get them by 15.00 USD...No one can beat that price...


Ufopolitics

UFO. I know you have a sense of humor. I appreciate a few words back and forth without it leading to a dual of wits. I've been tricked a lot of times with the tachometers. Reflective surfaces and even overhead lights can throw things off. I didn't notice Bob's post. The price sounds almost to good to be true. Are you really talking about a tach that doesn't need a reflective tape? I guess I'm missing something if you are. Your kidding right? You just want me to be searching around the Internet for a few days so I'll be out of your hair.
John Hav.

[Turion]

I will run the test with the known quantity of weight on the end of the lever arm, which will eliminate the need for the scales. But I will also make another trip to Walmart on Monday to see if they have gotten any more digital scales in stock. If they haven't, there are a couple sporting goods stores I can try.

Dave

[Netica]

Rotor Winding

Hi Ufo,

With regard to the winding of the rotor I was wondering if there is any benefit in winding a high amount of maybe 10 to 25 multifiler for coil of finer wire creating a greater surface area, and still aiming for around 1 - 2 ohm, or would it be best to try and fit a single wire of greatest diameter aiming for around 1 - 2 ohms.

Thanks
netica

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dad Hav

UFO. I know you have a sense of humor. I appreciate a few words back and forth without it leading to a dual of wits. I've been tricked a lot of times with the tachometers. Reflective surfaces and even overhead lights can throw things off. I didn't notice Bob's post. The price sounds almost to good to be true. Are you really talking about a tach that doesn't need a reflective tape? I guess I'm missing something if you are. Your kidding right? You just want me to be searching around the Internet for a few days so I'll be out of your hair.
John Hav.

Hello Dad Hav,

No, I was not kidding...Posts are on Page 47...first MasterBlaster then Bob French (post #1394) here:

DT2234C+ DIGITAL TACHOMETER - www.sinosells.com



MasterBlaster posted first on an European (UK) version...(post#1389) here

Both are the same thing.


And yes I know they are not that accurate as they could be triggered by many reflections, false lighting etc...(talking in general)
But I am developing a very cheap method to obtain the best and more accurate RPM readings...BUT...ONLY on my Machines... ..I have to test it still... but it is about an electrical contact set within Machine, without altering anything...and No Physical Contact required...except couple of probes...to the digital Tach...

And there are two types of Tachometers that does not require physical contact:

1) The IR (Infra Red) that requires a reflective tape is the older version, I have one, and it was very expensive...I got it a while back...
2) The LASER Tachometer does not requires tape...aim right at shaft...just like a Temperature sensor...Many Members here have them...one of them is Vincevl...He shows it at work on His video here...

Asymmetric Electrodynamic DC Motor - YouTube

Note Vince is just aiming at the very small shaft...no tape there...watch from 4:30 to 7:55 of video...

See Dad Hav...you were making wrong conclusions again... ...I was NOT trying to get you outta here searching for all this sites...so I get you out of my hair...I got them all for you...


Regards


Ufopolitics