Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[wrtner]

Hi.

As soon as I get magnets all will try all of these. Tnx for the input.

This one is also in plan. Both groups of magnets joined by nonferromagnetic material and lifted with coil to measure needed energy.


Frenky

You have a LC circuit here, which will resonate at a certain frequency.
It would be interesting to know what that is, and if there are changes,
to get those changes to happen at that frequency.

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

here is the newest video using the monopole magnet rotor pulsing the coil from the side and directing the collapsing field of the coil to a 1 Ohm load. Not much power is available using this method. 0.123vdc is measurable on the load so the extra power consumption on the motor or RPM drop is to low to measure.

I will have to build a new rotor with more powerful magnets and retest this to get better readings as I can see very tinny fluctuations when connected but not enough at this time to confirm anything.

Link to Video: YouTube - Generator Coil test 5

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

Well, if I consider the 0.007A for the input current increase, it gives an efficiency of 100.1% (COP of 1.001), still just ou... I understand that in the meantime you have changed the magnet setup, so maybe later this could be done again.

Hi Gyula,

I decided to try it with the monopole rotor and it looks to be as efficient as with the alternating magnet rotor. I let the motor run for over one hour to stabilize temperature and current draw. I kept my eyes on the current meter and also the voltage and connected and disconnected the coil to a 1 Ohm load at the most stable points. I did this well over 50 times and the best estimate I can come to is still showing to be very efficient. Resistor was at .4978vac using my quality meter and current would raise most of the time by 0.003ma. I did see a few .004ma so I would estimate .0035ma to .00375ma.

The side pulsing of an air core coil is proving to be very efficient and I would say is worth continuing to test. I will have to build a more powerful magnet rotor to to further boost the power on the load which should also give easier to read current readings of the motor.

Maybe you could "reverse engineer" from your earlier videos how the coils were connected when you did the very promising hand tests?

I'll look into this also. Too bad I didn't do a video of my quick test of the coils on the rotor as I believe this is probably where the error is. Anyways I'll see what I can come up with.

Luc

[gyula]

Ok Luc, if I recall correctly it was your generator coil test 2b video that may be of some help? (Especially at 3:50 where you combine the first coil with the second coil.)

Thanks for the latest video, I see the drag was very very little if any. The diode forward voltage drop was probably much higher that that was left to the 1 Ohm resistor. Stronger magnets are to be used as you also suggest.

rgds, Gyula

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

Almost overlooked... so regarding the 0.0035-0.00375A current estimation as the best and closest to the truth, it gives as follows:

Input power increase if you still had 67.1V AC to the Ryobi:

67.1V*0.00375=0.2516W

Output power on the 1 Ohm resistor:

0.4978*0.4978/1=0.2478W

Efficiency in this case is: .2478/.2516=0.9848 i.e. 98.48%

In case we consider the 0.0035A current increase, then the input power increase is: 0.2348W so the efficiency is .2478/.2348=1.0553 i.e. 105.53%

This result shows there might be "something" in this particular setup... Perhaps other people may also be able to test this. The shape and the thickness of the coil can be of interest in the result too.

Very good!



Gyula

Hi Gyula,
I decided to try it with the monopole rotor and it looks to be as efficient as with the alternating magnet rotor. I let the motor run for over one hour to stabilize temperature and current draw. I kept my eyes on the current meter and also the voltage and connected and disconnected the coil to a 1 Ohm load at the most stable points. I did this well over 50 times and the best estimate I can come to is still showing to be very efficient. Resistor was at .4978vac using my quality meter and current would raise most of the time by 0.003ma. I did see a few .004ma so I would estimate .0035ma to .00375ma.

The side pulsing of an air core coil is proving to be very efficient and I would say is worth continuing to test. I will have to build a more powerful magnet rotor to to further boost the power on the load which should also give easier to read current readings of the motor.
...

[cody]

Well it might get even more efficient because i think the diode was reversed for that test. I may have been looking at something wrong but it appeared to me from the scope shots that the collapse was free ringing and and the other half of the wave was what was being collected. Either way it cant hurt to poke this thing from all directions. I believe it should look like this.

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

I completed my new magnet rotor. Took 2 days to make

See test 6 video for a demonstration. This is just a quick test so nothing exciting as far as numbers go I think. About 11 Watts used for 9 Watts at resistor.

Link to Video: YouTube - Generator Coil test 6

I will post another test very soon

Stay tuned

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

here is a new test video with the dual coil arrangement. With this more powerful magnet rotor it is showing better results

This test seems to show 2 Watts extra from the Watts used by the motor under load.

Link to Video: YouTube - Generator Coil test 7

Luc

[gotoluc]

Again another test video with the dual the coils but in normal Generator position.

It is also showing extra power.

Normally extra power from coils should not happen. So, in order to get a better understanding I will take out the induction motor and replace it with my low RPM DC Permanent magnet Motor. This will also solve the unstable current and voltage issues.

Let me know what you all think

Link to video: YouTube - Generator Coil test 8

Luc

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

Very good, fantastic job in that rotor building!

I can only tell the same: agree with changing the prime mover.
I ponder on the rotor mass of both the Ryobi and the newly built rotor with the 1" magnets constitute quite a heavy flywheel and maybe let us in somehow...by masking the real reaction to the loads, though this has to average on the long run.
So anyway it is a very good step to change to a DC motor drive.

Thanks, Gyula

[cody]

Great stuff Luc! I agree that it would be a good idea to test it with a dc motor. With AC there are issues with power correction. Since you are using the variac and changing the voltage the motor was designed to work with, that may be throwing the power correction out of wack and throwing off your measurements. Honestly im really not sure if that would matter or not, but its a great idea to test with dc.

[gotoluc]

Thanks Gyula and Cody for posting your comments

Before taking the high RPM induction motor out I decided to test another double coil arrangement but these coils have high windings (MOT Secondaries)

I will also experiment with added capacitance at the same time while I have this high frequency capability since my DC Motor is a low RPM (500rpm) . Never seen what a resonating generator does

Also, I forgot to mention that I did many tests with the new magnet rotor and low winding coil using a diode to collect the collapsing field and found no added benefit once you add up the numbers.

Please remind me to test with a dual low winding and high winding coil combination. I think Nikola Tesla had a motor with this combination.

If I find anything interesting with the dual high winding coils I'll post a video as usual

Luc

[rave154]

GOTO,

cant wait for the test using DC, makes things soooo much simpler :-)

if you have one of those square 1 inch neo's handy.while youre making your next video, could you quickly show what the field looks like over the N pole and also the side of the magnet using iron filings on a piece of paper above the magnet while moving the magnet underneath using your hand, or similar.
it would help to visualise whats happening as the magnet moves past the coil/s and might help to squeeze an extra % or two of output by careful tweaking of position.

just a thought,

David. D

[rave154]

another thought

GOTO,

see attatchment,
your current rotor is the one on the left where the magnets are placed symetrically around the circumference and also the same distance away from the outer edge of the rotor.

the rotor on the right has the magnets placed alternatingly closer/further from the edge of the disk producing an effect where an alternatingly different area of the coil gets "hit" by the magnet. I was wondering if this might enhance the output.

obviously building a new rotor just to test this whim of an idea is a no-no....but..could you knock something up by hand?.. piece of board, with 2 or 3 neos stuck to it in a line ( to simulate your current rotor ) and move it past the coil at a constant hand speed.....record the voltage/amps...then re-arrange the magnets in this fashion V ^ V ... to simulate the rotor on the right in my diagram..and record the voltage and amps again?

just an idea :-)

David. D

[gotoluc]

Hi David,

the rotor at this time is a Monopole and all magnets are in the Diamond position.

These magnets scare me. I already had them fly off in a quick hot glue to rotor test ... If you look at the cove of my box you will see dents in it from the magnets. Wasted 3 of them in that 10 second test since they shatter and break apart when they stick together.

I'll have to do those kinds of experiment with smaller magnets.

Luc